Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Admitted, Jul 2, 2008.
probably like .01%
There really is great means to gather that information because there is no way to report it. People like Kleck have done interviews to come up with numbers but remember that the police aren't always called after a defensive gun use and not all defensive gun uses involve shots being fired. If you get mugged it gets filed under attempted robbery, not "attempted robbery stopped by the victim with a gun."
CCW is insurance. What is the percentage of people that have really needed car, health, fire, or flood insurance. If it was a high percentage thing it would no longer be insurance. It would be nessesity.
With the crazyness of this world insurance now a days is something completely different from my parents time.
In the CCW class I took in May they referenced some NRA statistics which were something along the lines of 1% of people w/ their CCW will ever draw their weapon and 9 out of 10 times when the weapon is drawn the conflict will be resolved without ever having to pull the trigger.
Who knows if that statistic is legit or not, but it sounds good. Haha.
no, he means 90% of the time the threat is neutralized by the sight of opposing force.
i wouldn't doubt that one bit.
This is correct.
My first response to this is if my gun comes out I am pulling the trigger, but if I get to my gun and the BG takes off running, I am not shooting him in the back.
That's exactly the scenario I was referring to but I'm also not shooting anyone if they put their hands up, get on the ground, etc. As much as I'd love to put a BG in the grave, I'd more so hate to have to spend years in court rooms and hundreds of thousands in legal fees that I don't have because of a questionable shoot.
Any civilians out there think about carrying cuffs to detain a BG?
Stories Bored at work crew.
I have thought about it, but I dont want to look too much like a cop.
That's what I was thinking. I know it would be a good idea, but I fear that people would see me as a vigilante and not for the fact that all I want to do is LIVE my life.
I have a story. Have not told it on this forum....
One morning I was coming down from my apartment. Our building has underground parking which is gated but the gate is usually open during daylight hours. As I go in I see a guy pull on a ski mask and walk up to a Toyota Camry. I think this is damn suspicious so I hang back and watch. He then throws something against the side window and the window breaks making a popping noise. He then reaches in the car to let himself in.
I know this car belongs to Mr Li who lives one hallway over from me. Without thinking I shout "Hey!". The guy spins around and pulls a long screwdriver out from his back waist band. I was a good 40 feet back and without thinking I draw my pistol and hold it at low ready (I have a CCW in California). The guys eyes go super wide.
The dumb ass runs right at me, and the one thing that saved his life is he dropped the screw driver. I back pedal and circle to my left and let him run by. I later realize I had placed myself between him and the only exit. As he runs by I have the muzzle squarely on his back but I don't shoot as he is running away and is unarmed.
I get my senses and try to think what to do next. So my dumb ass decides I should try to see which way he went. So I go out to street level to see where he ran off to. As I go out some lady sees me and I realize I still have my gun at low ready. This is not good. So then I decide I need to make some phone calls. First person I call is my pre determined lawyer. When I got my CCW we were given a list of lawyers who specialize in defensive shootings. He has all my contact information so he can call my family, call my boss, arrange for bail, basically all the stuff I need after a shooting. Anyway I tell him what happened and that I'm OK and did not fire my weapon. He advises me to call the cops and make a report. He wanted to hear from me immediately after I got the police report done, and I was OK. Otherwise he would call my family and boss, get the ball rolling, find out where I am, etc.
So I call the police and like 3 minutes later a squad care rolls up. The cops get out and I flag them over. I explain the story of what happened and as soon as I got to the part where I said I drew down on him they completely changed. One cops asks me "Your armed?" I say "Yes I have a valid CCW". The cop then asks me to very slowly hand my gun over. I had the gun already unloaded and in slide lock as I was expecting this. I turn slightly so he can see me draw the pistol and it was in slide lock. I hand it over to him. He then asks me to sit down by the wall which is what I do. He then proceeds to give me a verbal tongue lashing. "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU NEED A GUN FOR, BLAH BLAH BLAH." I argue that I have a valid CCW and I need for protection, I'm a competition shooter and travel with a lot of guns ,etc. Guys not listening and just keeps yelling at me. I decide to shut up and just fume for a while. Another squad car shows up and a Sargent walks up. I explain the story a 100th time and he can tell that I am hot. The cop that was yelling at me is mad dogging me the whole time. Sargent guy was cool and he tells me I'm OK, don't worry I'll get my gun back, etc. So I relax a little.
Mr Li is contacted and he comes down. Mr Li is pissed and screams that I should of shot the guy. So then we do the long police report thing, finally. I describe the guy. He had gloves and a ski mask. I could only see around his eyes and he is either white, light skinned Hispanic, or very light skinned black. Lot of good that description is. They find the screw driver and the piece of spark plug used to break the window.
I go into work a few minutes late and tell my boss who owns a gun but does not shoot competition or anything. Story gets told another 100 times at work until I'm damn sick of telling the story. My boss being a thinker starts breaking down all the scenarios as what he would of done. One scenario that is explored is what would of happened if the guy just surrendered. My boss says he would not want to hold the guy at gunpoint and then call the cops. Then he would have to go to court, police reports, etc. Real pain. He would of told the guy that he was going to step out of the way and he was to run his ass off as he was going to call the cops in 10 minutes. I don't say anything but I think that's a dick move. I think I would have that asshole face down and I would be posted up on him till the cops rolled up. Something has to be done about criminals. Anyway it is all agreed it turned out rather well as I didn't have to shoot somebody. That would of been a mess whether he was armed or not at the time. Lawyer charged me $200 for taking my phone call which kind of sucked but I did not argue. He did get a police report, filed it my folder to be used if I ever had another incident that I used force to show how I reacted in this circumstance, etc.
So a month goes by and I get a call from the police. Seems they caught the guy. Cops see somebody acting suspiciously walking in and out of a parking garage. He then walk up to his car parked a block away to gets his ski mask and screw driver (later found in the car). Dumb ass does not see the cops parked across the street (Black unmarked car). The cops get out to question him. The guy runs. The cops shoot him, but do not kill him.
So then they have me come in to tell my story another 100 times. They want to use me as a witness in this guys trial. They try to get me to change my story about why I didn't shoot the guy. Seems the cop shot him and he was unarmed and I didn't shoot him as he was unarmed. Did not help their case much. I never did end up going to court. The guy pleaded for a reduced sentence which they accepted to side step the shooting thing. Never did get the full details on that one. My impression was the shooting was not 100% legit so they met the guy half way.
So anyway that's the story. I got the one where I shot the bear in montana but that doesn't qualify as CCW.
Oh, Mr Li did calm down. Realized a broken window was a lot better than a stolen car. When I got off of work there as a thank you card and a $50 gift certificate for Red Lobster.
The guy was some tweaker and white if anyone was wondering the race. In the police report it has his name "Knutsen".
There is no doubt in my mind if he would of taken two steps at me with that screw driver in his hand he would of taken two to the body and one to the head before he took that 3rd step. This was left out of the police report of course.
You can talk it and feel it all day log, but until it happens...
Only the really dumb ones.
Here's a recent story from my cousin....
I get a call at 4pm in the afternoon, my cousin (who also shoots IDPA with me) is calling me pretty excited. And explains he was almost robbed in broad day light.
He's coming back from Target and parked on the side. Some guys are standing behind a truck and ask him if he want's to buy some house speakers. My cousin is an audiophile so he peers into the trunk and sees the speakers. It's still in a box, but the guy says he can show him "but it won't be "new" anymore if he takes it out" he takes out a knife and opens the box for him anyhow.
My cousin is not interested and begins to walk away. The guy gets aggitated and says "my boss will be pissed since I had to open the box" How about $200? My cousin is walking back to his car and says "naw, I'm good" The guys start to follow him and says "oh hell no, your coming out of something, you bought this now that I had to open it".
My cousin gets to his car and the second guy comes around the back of the car, and the first guy stands in front of his car and screams " no dude, your coming out of some money for that shi...."
Before he finishes his sentance he's peering down the barrel of my cousins .45.
My cousin screams "listen mother fucker I just want to get back home, back the fuck up..."
The guy screams " you didn't have to pull a gun holmes, why you trippin?" and backs up. My cousin gets in the TL and speeds off and hops on the horn (to call me).
A few years ago my father and one of his friends were hiking in the mountains up near my parents' cabin. They were approached by 3 younger guys (like early-mid 20s.) The guys asked my father how to get to one of the area lakes. My father thought it was a bit odd because they were nowhere near that lake and were a few miles up on a trail, so he told the kid the lake was about 15 miles away. Right after that, one of the kids pulls a long fixed blade knife out of his pants. At the sight of the knife, my dad brushed back his jacket to reveal his SP101. The kids turned and ran like hell.
A crime was prevented without the gun even having to be drawn.
what a fucking shithead cop
what do i need a gun for? incase he DIDNT drop the screwdriver, fuckface.
I'm sure the cop would have advised him just to run away and not confront the criminal.
Yep, since a cop isn't there you MUST be a victim.
You'd get railroaded in court as a vigilante/cop wannabe who was out looking for a victim. Horrible ideal in 99% of the situations you would find yourself in as a civilian CCWer.
A few zip ties might just happen to be in your pocket, but in general, it is only advisible to attempt armed>de-escalated>restraint with training and someone else to cover you.
Why would you voluntarily get yourself closer to the bad guy, put him within range of your gun, and have to holster your gun making you far more helpless to put a ziptie or cuffs on him? Gun = distance from attacker = good. Talk to some cops about cuffing before you decide its something you should consider doing.