CAR Can someone tell me one reason to bail GM out?

[Bona Fide]

Other than "why do you hate America"...

After reading several news stories from various sources, here's what it boils down to:

With Bailout: GM uses the money to restructure to become leaner and focus on fuel efficiency and profitability. They get $34B to do whatever they want with, like continuing to fuel the cash burn that's costing them some $2B/month.

Without Bailout: GM files Ch.11, and restructures to become leaner and focus on fuel efficiency and profitability. They also go to court and dissolve existing labor contracts (no more UAW shit), AND they don't get another $34 billion out of our pockets.

 

[garbagemanlb]

I was under the impression that due to the current credit crisis, the normal bankruptcy route would involve liquidation?

 

[spencedawg82]

Think of how many people work for GM? Hell Detroit is a shit hole now, imagine what it will be like if there are no jobs

 

[TireSmokinSRT]

Aveo

 

[Bona Fide]

I was under the impression that due to the current credit crisis, the normal bankruptcy route would involve liquidation?

That's Ch.7, unless I'm mistaken. If they file for Ch.11 protection, they can reorganize per an agreement between debtors and creditors, and be back to full business within a year.

 

[Kevin]

Because its not a bailout, its a loan.

 

[Bona Fide]

Think of how many people work for GM? Hell Detroit is a shit hole now, imagine what it will be like if there are no jobs

They're cutting jobs either way, and in neither case do you have GM going completely under. They NEED to cut jobs, because the way they're structured currently you'd think they control the entire US market.

 

[2DR Vette]

They're cutting jobs either way, and in neither case do you have GM going completely under. They NEED to cut jobs, because the way they're structured currently you'd think they control the entire US market.

I think the job cuts and divestitures would be far more substantial under Ch. 11 then if they were bailed out.

Once judges and creditors get involved, it's a world of hurt for the organization.

 

[Grimey]

There is none

American car companies have failed before, this wouldn't be anything new.

 

[cbs_24]

Fuck GM, they should have done these things on their own years ago instead of waiting for the shit to hit the fan. gas prices have been rising for years and instead of adapting and making vehicles practical for consumers in the current market, they kept on doing things exactly the same way hoping things would change and now they need billions.

 

[Kevin]

There is none

American car companies have failed before, this wouldn't be anything new.

Do some research and look at how large the companies were that failed, and compare it to the size of the big 3.

 

[Lech]

I think it's only fair given the financial services industry gets $700b.

 

[cbs_24]

fix it yourself or go bankrupt.

 

[Grimey]

The chairman getting out of his car today didn't even look worried or like he cared. Fuck these piece of shit companies. If WALMART went under no one would fucking support a bailout to "save their employees' jobs"

Wal-Mart doesn't have unions, that's primarily why no one (and by no one, I mean the media) would care.

 

[2DR Vette]

Do some research and look at how large the companies were that failed, and compare it to the size of the big 3.

Hey man- AMC was HUGE. HUGE I SAY!

 

[cbs_24]

I think it's only fair given the financial services industry gets $700b.

fair?

 

[Bona Fide]

I think the job cuts and divestitures would be far more substantial under Ch. 11 then if they were bailed out.

Once judges and creditors get involved, it's a world of hurt for the organization.

Sure they would, but that's only because the creditors rightfully want their money, or at least a plan to get their money. In the bailout case you have the taxpayers paying them off, in essence.

I believe that the amount of jobs lost in Ch.11 restructuring would be far closer to the true amount of jobs GM needs to cut than they would in a bailout restructuring. The fact of the matter is the Big 3 are way too big for their own good, in terms of brands, plants, employees, spending, etc. They're still structured for a time when they were the only guys selling cars here. They need to trim down.

 

[Public Enemy Rated R]

Because its not a bailout, its a loan.

Exactly

 

[Bona Fide]

I think it's only fair given the financial services industry gets $700b.

How does fairness even play into this? Because I killed a guy once before, it's only fair that I kill someone else? Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Lech]

I would also add that GM was finally on track but the credit crunch fucked them over big time.

 

[Bona Fide]

Because its not a bailout, its a loan.

In name only. A company burning $2B/month that has publicly said it cannot afford to finance its operations for more than another month has no viable way of repaying $34B in 20 years.

 

[Grimey]

I think it's only fair given the financial services industry gets $700b.

location

 

[MAD PUNK inDC]

because a year of unemployment rates higher than 10% would fuck the economy up much worse than it is now. However they don't need a bailout, they need congress to green light them on kicking the UAW out, and loan them money to set up a pension fund independent from the company.

 

[Lech]

How does fairness even play into this? Because I killed a guy once before, it's only fair that I kill someone else? Two wrongs don't make a right.

It's more like, I killed someone, and I get a $50 fine. You kill someone, and you get the death penalty.

 

[Bona Fide]

I'm pretty sure if you're from Detroit or the general MI area your opinion is quite biased. Just like people who live in Manhattan.