Cycling Crew - It's 2023! Let's play bikes...

[6SpeedTA95]

That's common programming for me. Make sure it's endurance pace so you'll probably need to ride alone. Is this a real VO2 workout or something power based?

It'll be indoor on the trainer...both of them
I have cedar pollen induced asthma and it's really bad this time of year. I'm on two medications which keep me functional, three when it gets bad. Thankfully this will be winding down the next couple weeks so by the time April rolls around I should be good on that front.

The VO2 is real. It's power based in TR, but I can alter my power to make sure my HR stays high. I'm planning to add a couple intervals to the program because when I do this workout normally, I only get about 12 mins at true VO2 (>90%HR Max). But by adding intervals I can push that up to 20 mins.

Then Monday I'll do a ride that's mostly Z2 with some top end Z1 stuff. Basically keeping HR below 151 or so and probably below 145 for the huge majority of the ride. So we're talking power between 175 and 230 for most of the ride. Just needing to add volume to get in shape, especially if I am going to have a hope in hell at doing the Tulsa Tough Ace.
Edit: do you fuel your VO2 rides while on the bike if they're < 75mins in length? I normally don't but after reading some things you sent me a few months ago, I'm leaning towards a gel or two while on the bike.

 

[CraneCamsOU]

Yes I do fuel on shorter rides, even indoor 60 minute rides. Adjust down the carbs for shorter rides of course, and I’ll make sure I drink it by 30-45mins remaining.

 

[black jesus]

It'll be indoor on the trainer...both of them
I have cedar pollen induced asthma and it's really bad this time of year. I'm on two medications which keep me functional, three when it gets bad. Thankfully this will be winding down the next couple weeks so by the time April rolls around I should be good on that front.

The VO2 is real. It's power based in TR, but I can alter my power to make sure my HR stays high. I'm planning to add a couple intervals to the program because when I do this workout normally, I only get about 12 mins at true VO2 (>90%HR Max). But by adding intervals I can push that up to 20 mins.

Then Monday I'll do a ride that's mostly Z2 with some top end Z1 stuff. Basically keeping HR below 151 or so and probably below 145 for the huge majority of the ride. So we're talking power between 175 and 230 for most of the ride. Just needing to add volume to get in shape, especially if I am going to have a hope in hell at doing the Tulsa Tough Ace.
Edit: do you fuel your VO2 rides while on the bike if they're < 75mins in length? I normally don't but after reading some things you sent me a few months ago, I'm leaning towards a gel or two while on the bike.

What meds do you take? I recently switched to "gen-2" antihistamines and I am free of allergies for the first time in my life. No more Epi-pen use, no more misery.

If you listened to that pod that I linked you to last time, you said you did, then you would know that VO2 is not a function of power but stroke volume; you have to turn ERG off and nuke your fucking body. For me that's a 80-90% sprint for the initial kick, a HR above 170, and 110RPM or higher cadence. That is max heart stroke volume.

Your LT1 is probably 230-250W, I think you said your LT-2 was 330w. Ride at conversational pace, for me that's 170-200w. 230w-250w is tempo.

Fuel, yes. When I have VO2 work I start the night before by eating half a cup of white rice with granola, maybe a shitload of pasta. Then for breakfast I have muesli, for lunch I incorporate another cup of rice into lunch one way or another along with the rest of a meal. I eat a Cliff bar before kitting-up, eat my first 25g CH gel 15 minute before the first interval, and then another gel after about 20 minutes. If I don't do this, my coach knows, he sees something with WKO that tells him I didn't eat, dude fucking knows it. My VO2 workouts are usually a 15-20 minute warmup with a 3-step warm-up to get things going, rest five minutes, and then up to 7 3-minute VO2 intervals with 6 minutes or rest in between. My coach always writes, "If you run out of legs it's because you ran out of carbs." At the end of that workout, you should be done living and retire to a grave.

 

[CraneCamsOU]

Oh and you’ll be able to crush the ace physically. I just don’t know how to survive it from a hydration point of view. During the Fondo I stopped 5 times and made sure I drank both bottles by each one. Ace peloton only stops twice, oof

 

[6SpeedTA95]

What meds do you take? I recently switched to "gen-2" antihistamines and I am free of allergies for the first time in my life. No more Epi-pen use, no more misery.

If you listened to that pod that I linked you to last time, you said you did, then you would know that VO2 is not a function of power but stroke volume; you have to turn ERG off and nuke your fucking body. For me that's a 80-90% sprint for the initial kick, a HR above 170, and 110RPM or higher cadence. That is max heart stroke volume.

Your LT1 is probably 230-250W, I think you said your LT-2 was 330w. Ride at conversational pace, for me that's 170-200w. 230w-250w is tempo.

Fuel, yes. When I have VO2 work I start the night before by eating half a cup of white rice with granola, maybe a shitload of pasta. Then for breakfast I have muesli, for lunch I incorporate another cup of rice into lunch one way or another along with the rest of a meal. I eat a Cliff bar before kitting-up, eat my first 25g CH gel 15 minute before the first interval, and then another gel after about 20 minutes. If I don't do this, my coach knows, he sees something with WKO that tells him I didn't eat, dude fucking knows it. My VO2 workouts are usually a 15-20 minute warmup with a 3-step warm-up to get things going, rest five minutes, and then up to 7 3-minute VO2 intervals with 6 minutes or rest in between. My coach always writes, "If you run out of legs it's because you ran out of carbs." At the end of that workout, you should be done living and retire to a grave.

Yeah I'm targeting HR > 171 and cadence > 105. I'm going to have to work up to 110 because I'm not used to that. I was doing those intervals at like 95 rpm prior to that podcast. Immediately stepped up to 100+ and the other day was around 105. Getting to 110 is doable it'll just take some practice since I've never really tried to hold that kind of cadence for any period of time really.
Threshold (LT2) probably down to 310-315 right now. TR says it's 324 but I don't believe that based on the interval session I did a couple days ago.
Edit: I did a 7x3 workout early last week. I liked it, I'm doing 4min intervals at the moment because I need more time at higher power to get used to pulling/breakaway and the pain again. My HR can take a hot minute to come up too unless I just sprint early in the interval which I could do but then I feel like total shit for the rest of it
I'll try to post tomorrow's ride info so you can see it. I'm going to do a couple of my own intervals in addition to the TR specified intervals. Really would like > 20 mins at >= 171bpm

 

[6SpeedTA95]

Oh and you’ll be able to crush the ace physically. I just don’t know how to survive it from a hydration point of view. During the Fondo I stopped 5 times and made sure I drank both bottles by each one. Ace peloton only stops twice, oof

So it does stop? It's doable on a stop. I did the 66 miler back in 2019 and only stopped once. If the Ace stops twice that should be doable.

 

[CraneCamsOU]

So it does stop? It's doable on a stop. I did the 66 miler back in 2019 and only stopped once. If the Ace stops twice that should be doable.

At least in years past yes. They stop twice and everyone gets like a 2 minute credit for each.
I make it a point to ride the afternoons of the hottest days of summer, and really enjoy the difficulty. But I sweat a ton and go through 2 bottles an hr. Doing the Ace means I’ll need to carry at least a 3rd bottle. Certainly not impossible to do, but something I’ll have to plan for

 

[Alias]

I still can't get my mind off a new Canyon gravel bike. I just wish they had more/better color options.

They’re the way to go for a nice beater bike but even they’re getting expensive. Mine (Inflite) has like 7k miles on it. I ride the easier mtb trails that I drive 30 mins for, but ride out my front door. Fat 5-8 hour rides.

 

[6SpeedTA95]

At least in years past yes. They stop twice and everyone gets like a 2 minute credit for each.
I make it a point to ride the afternoons of the hottest days of summer, and really enjoy the difficulty. But I sweat a ton and go through 2 bottles an hr. Doing the Ace means I’ll need to carry at least a 3rd bottle. Certainly not impossible to do, but something I’ll have to plan for

Ace starts at 7am I think and ends by noon, so at least it's not boiling hot. The pace is pretty high, last year it was 21.9mph.

 

[Alias]

It'll be indoor on the trainer...both of them
I have cedar pollen induced asthma and it's really bad this time of year. I'm on two medications which keep me functional, three when it gets bad. Thankfully this will be winding down the next couple weeks so by the time April rolls around I should be good on that front.

The VO2 is real. It's power based in TR, but I can alter my power to make sure my HR stays high. I'm planning to add a couple intervals to the program because when I do this workout normally, I only get about 12 mins at true VO2 (>90%HR Max). But by adding intervals I can push that up to 20 mins.

Then Monday I'll do a ride that's mostly Z2 with some top end Z1 stuff. Basically keeping HR below 151 or so and probably below 145 for the huge majority of the ride. So we're talking power between 175 and 230 for most of the ride. Just needing to add volume to get in shape, especially if I am going to have a hope in hell at doing the Tulsa Tough Ace.
Edit: do you fuel your VO2 rides while on the bike if they're < 75mins in length? I normally don't but after reading some things you sent me a few months ago, I'm leaning towards a gel or two while on the bike.

You shouldn’t need to fuel mid ride on <60 min rides. I eat more than anyone I know on the bike and won’t eat unless the ride is going to be more than 75-80 mins or so.

90 min ride? Eat once at 45 mins
100 min ride? Eat at 40 @ 70 mins
Anything longer I ear every half hour from the start and at 3 hours I start eating every 20 mins

 

[6SpeedTA95]

You shouldn’t need to fuel mid ride on <60 min rides. I eat more than anyone I know on the bike and won’t eat unless the ride is going to be more than 75-80 mins or so.

90 min ride? Eat once at 45 mins
100 min ride? Eat at 40 @ 70 mins
Anything longer I ear every half hour from the start and at 3 hours I start eating every 20 mins

If it's a z2 ride I don't worry about it, I don't eat for 60 or 90 or even 120min rides. VO2 max intervals are a different ballgame though, so doing 75 mins tomorrow with 20-25 mins of that spent at high intensity could be though.

 

[NULL_bits]

They’re the way to go for a nice beater bike but even they’re getting expensive. Mine (Inflite) has like 7k miles on it. I ride the easier mtb trails that I drive 30 mins for, but ride out my front door. Fat 5-8 hour rides.

A $5K “beater bike”? 🤣

You have a totally different definition of a beater than I do!

 

[6SpeedTA95]

A $5K “beater bike”? 🤣

You have a totally different definition of a beater than I do!

Your av makes me want to take a beater break...just saying...

 

[Alias]

A $5K “beater bike”? 🤣

You have a totally different definition of a beater than I do!

I got my Inflite a few years ago, low $3k iirc. Added wheels and a power meter. It’s what I ride when the weather is bad. Mtb has expensive suspension and drivetrain, road bike less sealed against the elements. It has 11s Ultegra on it so drivetrain is cheap to replace when it wears out fast in inclement weather, no suspension or pivots, etc.

 

[black jesus]

Yeah I'm targeting HR > 171 and cadence > 105. I'm going to have to work up to 110 because I'm not used to that. I was doing those intervals at like 95 rpm prior to that podcast. Immediately stepped up to 100+ and the other day was around 105. Getting to 110 is doable it'll just take some practice since I've never really tried to hold that kind of cadence for any period of time really.
Threshold (LT2) probably down to 310-315 right now. TR says it's 324 but I don't believe that based on the interval session I did a couple days ago.
Edit: I did a 7x3 workout early last week. I liked it, I'm doing 4min intervals at the moment because I need more time at higher power to get used to pulling/breakaway and the pain again. My HR can take a hot minute to come up too unless I just sprint early in the interval which I could do but then I feel like total shit for the rest of it
I'll try to post tomorrow's ride info so you can see it. I'm going to do a couple of my own intervals in addition to the TR specified intervals. Really would like > 20 mins at >= 171bpm

Trainer Road has no idea what your FTP is.

At least in years past yes. They stop twice and everyone gets like a 2 minute credit for each.
I make it a point to ride the afternoons of the hottest days of summer, and really enjoy the difficulty. But I sweat a ton and go through 2 bottles an hr. Doing the Ace means I’ll need to carry at least a 3rd bottle. Certainly not impossible to do, but something I’ll have to plan for

A third bottle in a pocket but you're going to need more water than that.

You shouldn’t need to fuel mid ride on <60 min rides. I eat more than anyone I know on the bike and won’t eat unless the ride is going to be more than 75-80 mins or so.

90 min ride? Eat once at 45 mins
100 min ride? Eat at 40 @ 70 mins
Anything longer I ear every half hour from the start and at 3 hours I start eating every 20 mins

lol @ probably 25g of CH every 90 minutes.

If it's a z2 ride I don't worry about it, I don't eat for 60 or 90 or even 120min rides. VO2 max intervals are a different ballgame though, so doing 75 mins tomorrow with 20-25 mins of that spent at high intensity could be though.

Do you like feeling like shit on endurance rides? You'd have a lot more enjoyable ride with glycogenesis than ketogenesis.

 

[6SpeedTA95]

Trainer Road has no idea what your FTP is.

A third bottle in a pocket but you're going to need more water than that.

lol @ probably 25g of CH every 90 minutes.

Do you like feeling like shit on endurance rides? You'd have a lot more enjoyable ride with glycogenesis than ketogenesis.

Alright here's my VO2 stuff from this morning. Critique away bro.



This was pretty hard. I didn't want to totally drain the tank as I've got an endurance ride tomorrow but this has me huffing and puffing pretty good.
I spent a lot of time in high HR zones, but of the 29 mins >=171 BPM only about 23 or 24 of those mins were under power. The other 4 or 5 mins were coming down off the intervals.

 

[Alias]

lol @ probably 25g of CH every 90 minutes.

That's only for 90 min rides. I'll eat once in the middle for those. With breakfast beforehand that's all I need.

Anything longer and I'm having 40-50/hour and at 3 hours it gets bumped to 60-75/hour.

 

[McCroskey]

you've heard of elf of the shelf, get ready for......

(also...ooof that horse ate shit in the last slide)

 

[chrislehr]

What meds do you take? I recently switched to "gen-2" antihistamines and I am free of allergies for the first time in my life. No more Epi-pen use, no more misery.

If you listened to that pod that I linked you to last time, you said you did, then you would know that VO2 is not a function of power but stroke volume; you have to turn ERG off and nuke your fucking body. For me that's a 80-90% sprint for the initial kick, a HR above 170, and 110RPM or higher cadence. That is max heart stroke volume.

Your LT1 is probably 230-250W, I think you said your LT-2 was 330w. Ride at conversational pace, for me that's 170-200w. 230w-250w is tempo.

Fuel, yes. When I have VO2 work I start the night before by eating half a cup of white rice with granola, maybe a shitload of pasta. Then for breakfast I have muesli, for lunch I incorporate another cup of rice into lunch one way or another along with the rest of a meal. I eat a Cliff bar before kitting-up, eat my first 25g CH gel 15 minute before the first interval, and then another gel after about 20 minutes. If I don't do this, my coach knows, he sees something with WKO that tells him I didn't eat, dude fucking knows it. My VO2 workouts are usually a 15-20 minute warmup with a 3-step warm-up to get things going, rest five minutes, and then up to 7 3-minute VO2 intervals with 6 minutes or rest in between. My coach always writes, "If you run out of legs it's because you ran out of carbs." At the end of that workout, you should be done living and retire to a grave.

Wow. Donuts and peanut m&ms herr.

 

[Catdrew]

Ugh, Bont issued my refund in USD so I had to pay $40 for my bank to process. It's going to cost me $1100 to get two pairs of shoes that fit.

Why would you buy bonts

 

[FryingPan]

Wow. Donuts and peanut m&ms herr.

I just had 8 pounds of Sour Patch Kids delivered.

 

[black jesus]

Why would you buy bonts

They're Riot shoe is perfect for me in CX. I hate the cheap BOAs though. Lake are the closest to perfect fit so far but they fall apart in the first year or season and would not warranty a ~6 race-old shoe when the tread fell off. $350 burnt.

 

[black jesus]

Alright here's my VO2 stuff from this morning. Critique away bro.

View attachment 309225
View attachment 309226
View attachment 309227 This was pretty hard. I didn't want to totally drain the tank as I've got an endurance ride tomorrow but this has me huffing and puffing pretty good.
I spent a lot of time in high HR zones, but of the 29 mins >=171 BPM only about 23 or 24 of those mins were under power. The other 4 or 5 mins were coming down off the intervals.

Sir, you never did VO2. You're riding just above threshold, resting, and then going again and watching power decay to tempo. Your 180bpm HR at 10w-over FTP also tells me that whatever you FTP is set to, it's way too high and I don't know what this workout is supposed to do. Which energy system is this targeting? I feel like I've been here before, myself, and I now realize things are much simpler after some coaching.

I am a slow bitch with an FTP of 280w (real FTP measure) and my VO2 interval starts at like 700w and decays to ~300 over a three minute period. This is what the trace looks like and it's important for me to not finish these in a headwind to assure I don't fall over:

 

[6SpeedTA95]

Sir, you never did VO2. You're riding just above threshold, resting, and then going again and watching power decay to tempo. Your 180bpm HR at 10w-over FTP also tells me that whatever you FTP is set to, it's way too high and I don't know what this workout is supposed to do. Which energy system is this targeting? I feel like I've been here before, myself, and I now realize things are much simpler after some coaching.

I am a slow bitch with an FTP of 280w (real FTP measure) and my VO2 interval starts at like 700w and decays to ~300 over a three minute period. This is what the trace looks like and it's important for me to not finish these in a headwind to assure I don't fall over:

View attachment 309277

Yeah like I said yesterday my FTP in TR is too high.

But everything you've sent said VO2 isn't about power it's about HR. So if my real FTP is 310 or 305 then those intervals targeting 345 are more like 110% and HR got there.
So what do I need to do? My max HR is 190-192 so can't really do much more on the HR front.
On those hard start intervals I added I was 370-390 to start those and then just let it trail off once my HR got above 90%. Seems to be their recipe they said on that podcast.
Should I go harder for shorter periods? I could do 3 min intervals and crank the power? Once I'm back in shape I could add 30 or 35 watts to these intervals but I'm out of shape at the moment.

 

[black jesus]

Yeah like I said yesterday my FTP in TR is too high.

But everything you've sent said VO2 isn't about power it's about HR. So if my real FTP is 310 or 305 then those intervals targeting 345 are more like 110% and HR got there.
So what do I need to do? My max HR is 190-192 so can't really do much more on the HR front.
On those hard start intervals I added I was 370-390 to start those and then just let it trail off once my HR got above 90%. Seems to be their recipe they said on that podcast.
Should I go harder for shorter periods? I could do 3 min intervals and crank the power? Once I'm back in shape I could add 30 or 35 watts to these intervals but I'm out of shape at the moment.

Go listen to that pod again, I've listened to it at least 3x. VO2 is high power, HR, and cadence; max heart stroke volume. When I do these I hit the button, sprint at 80% for like 10 seconds to get my heart going until it hits about 168, then settle-in at like 400w while my HR hopefully quickly climbs to 175bpm and I keep cadence at 110w. Power then slowly dwindles for the remainder of the 3-minute target.

You need to pedal way harder at the start, hammer until HR climbs to nearly 95% of max HR, and then try to hang onto power. You need to do them after rest. These are tough and during VO2 season, I get like 3 max VO2 workout per week and for the entire block I feel like I'm slowly dying. I usually do a 3-week block and then rest 5-9 days before another block with a max of three blocks per year, back to back. Then a rest, then an FTP test, and then we work on TTE.