GUN Defensive spray question

[DWI]

Master of Nothing
Aug 6, 2000
22,872
Maine
I've heard a lot of people talk Fox Labs and Sabre.

Simply put if you could not have a gun/were not comfortable with a gun, would you go with a straight OC spray or a OC/CN or OC/CS combined spray?
 

copeland

smarter than you
Jun 4, 2004
3,477
PG B.C.
OC with a heavy viscosity.

When you deploy the OC there is cross contamination and exposure which hinders yourself, heavier, oil based products help limit this by creating heavier liquid which will fall from the atmosphere. However, having been exposed to Sabre's product I recommend it as a defensive option.
 

copeland

smarter than you
Jun 4, 2004
3,477
PG B.C.
You should honestly consider being exposed to OC before using it. It WILL get all over you if/when you spray someone, trust me on that one. If you aren't ready for it, and you get some from someone fighting back after being sprayed, you're in for a world of trouble :o

I've been sprayed 4 times now. It sucks every time. I've had all levels of exposure, direct spray to the face/eyes, wiped across my face with a cloth soaked in OC, and being around OC when it's being used. It's something you should definitely try to associate with before using.

I've been exposed in training that's why I recommend a heavy viscosity...

our organization recently switched to a newer sabre product which is not as heavy or thick in viscosity, and though it does deploy faster and more effectively, does not disable the opponent as effeciently.

Why, if you've been sprayed, would you mess around with just wiping material across your face as "lesser" means of exposure?
 
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[DWI]

[DWI]

Master of Nothing
Aug 6, 2000
22,872
Maine
Well so WMD vetos the tear gas type hybrid?

I'm shopping for the G/F's mother and something is better than nothing, she wants key chain sized.

So far I'm looking at the

FOX labs Mean Green
FOX labs Mark 8
Sabre Red

I personally would recommend a gun a bigger container than a keychain ring, but the woman is an anti who likes to think the best of people, then someone got mugged where she likes to walk. So now she's consented to pepper spray.
 
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[DWI]

[DWI]

Master of Nothing
Aug 6, 2000
22,872
Maine
The CS or CN component of the spray seems to get caught by a breeze way to easily and can blow right back in your face to easily IME.


And go with a 2oz Stream which will keep blowback down and have a decent range.

Some people like to say the CS/CN are as effective under certain circumstances (since they cause pain and are mainly a reflex as opposed an automatic reaction) . . I'll look into the 2 oz size.
 

Floyd91

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2000
18,111
Oregon
I want to get the so something to carry in her purse. She works at a bank so a firearm isn't an option. I don't know shit about oc where do I start?


I was thinking of the 2oz spring loaded flip top. It sounds like the heavy stream is the way to go?
 
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LancerV

Buttslut sighting
OT Supporter
Sep 16, 2003
72,331
In the military they have you sit in those tents filled with tear gas so you can learn to tolerate it the best you can. OC aka Pepper Spray is not something you can really build a tolerance around, you just learn to fight around the affects of it.
What? The military they use tear gas to teach you how to properly use your mask (don, seal, clear mask). You can be born immune to tear gas though

OC actually kills your nerve endings and eventually you wont feel much as much from it now mind you would prob have to OC your self for a good 3-4months straight. Hell the joint stuff I use is the same percent capsicum thats in OC burned like a hoe for the first couple months now its just warm
 

LancerV

Buttslut sighting
OT Supporter
Sep 16, 2003
72,331
Capsaicin: identification, nomenclature, and pharmacotherapy.
Cordell GA, Araujo OE.

Department of Medicinal Chemistry and Pharmacognosy, College of Pharmacy, University of Illinois, Chicago 60612.

OBJECTIVE: To provide a brief overview of the chemical history, analysis, nomenclature, biology, pharmacology, and pharmacotherapy of capsaicin. DATA SOURCES: Chemical Abstracts, Biological Abstracts, and a MEDLINE search were used to identify pertinent literature; selected literature was used in this review. DATA EXTRACTION: Original articles, reviews, and abstracts of articles were used to select material pertinent to the objectives of the review. The volume of material available prohibits comprehensive data extraction. CONCLUSIONS: A history of the use of Capsicum spp. and the predominant active ingredient, capsaicin, the parent compound of a group of vanillyl fatty acid amides, is presented. Distinct structural differences are noted between this compound and the capsaicinoids, especially the synthetic analog nonivamide, which has appeared as an adulterant in capsaicin-labeled products. Analysis shows that although some of these synthetic analogs eventually may prove to be true natural products, conclusive evidence based on isolation and structure elucidation is still absent after decades of attempted isolation from several potential natural sources. Although the crude, dark oleoresin extract of capsicum contains over 100 distinct volatile compounds and therefore may function in many ways dissimilar to capsaicin, the oleoresin continues to be marketed in products with a high degree of variability in efficacy. Capsaicin as a pure white crystalline material, however, acts specifically by depleting stores of substance P from sensory neurons, and has been successful in the treatment of several painful conditions (e.g., rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis, peripheral neuropathies.

Substance P is the shit that makes Capsaicin Hurt
 

LancerV

Buttslut sighting
OT Supporter
Sep 16, 2003
72,331
We train doing fight through drills with OC. NOT a combination spray. :hsugh:

CS can have a tolerance built up, correct.

Some people have NO reaction to OC spray whatsoever. I've seen it with my own two eyes. Watch a bunch of classes of ~40 people get sprayed, here and there someone won't be affected. `

Ive been a tear gased over 20times and it sucked as bad as it did the first time. How many people here actually work with tear gas saying you can build up a tolerance too it?
 

LancerV

Buttslut sighting
OT Supporter
Sep 16, 2003
72,331
Most of that is just learning to slow your breathing, and control your reactions.

Although our commander is immune to the shit and hell just stand in the tent with no reaction for the whole time without his mask on
 

smartypants

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2007
38,921
Post Bellum Atlanta
:rofl: :rofl: Gotcha.


If we had tasers, I'd leave my OC at home :hs: But we don't. No extra cuffs? Srsly? What do you do when you get a really big guy that can't get his arms back around for one set? :confused:

If he runs from me and chooses to roll around with me, I'll make his arms fit.:wavey:

If he rolls over and submits, then I'll use my partner's cuff or a hobble.
 
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[DWI]

[DWI]

Master of Nothing
Aug 6, 2000
22,872
Maine
Capsaicin: identification, nomenclature, and pharmacotherapy.
Cordell GA, Araujo OE.

Department of Medicinal Chemistry and Pharmacognosy, College of Pharmacy, University of Illinois, Chicago 60612.

OBJECTIVE: To provide a brief overview of the chemical history, analysis, nomenclature, biology, pharmacology, and pharmacotherapy of capsaicin. DATA SOURCES: Chemical Abstracts, Biological Abstracts, and a MEDLINE search were used to identify pertinent literature; selected literature was used in this review. DATA EXTRACTION: Original articles, reviews, and abstracts of articles were used to select material pertinent to the objectives of the review. The volume of material available prohibits comprehensive data extraction. CONCLUSIONS: A history of the use of Capsicum spp. and the predominant active ingredient, capsaicin, the parent compound of a group of vanillyl fatty acid amides, is presented. Distinct structural differences are noted between this compound and the capsaicinoids, especially the synthetic analog nonivamide, which has appeared as an adulterant in capsaicin-labeled products. Analysis shows that although some of these synthetic analogs eventually may prove to be true natural products, conclusive evidence based on isolation and structure elucidation is still absent after decades of attempted isolation from several potential natural sources. Although the crude, dark oleoresin extract of capsicum contains over 100 distinct volatile compounds and therefore may function in many ways dissimilar to capsaicin, the oleoresin continues to be marketed in products with a high degree of variability in efficacy. Capsaicin as a pure white crystalline material, however, acts specifically by depleting stores of substance P from sensory neurons, and has been successful in the treatment of several painful conditions (e.g., rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis, peripheral neuropathies.

Substance P is the shit that makes Capsaicin Hurt


That does not say it kills the nerve cells, it says it deplete a chemical stored in the neurons. The nerves release chemicals to transmit a signal, if you transmit that signal often enough and strong enough (with nerve recruiting) it will deplete the nerve stockpiles quicker than they can be replenished. Much like if you fire your gun a lot there will be no bullets in the magazine, it doesn't mean you have broken the gun.
 

copeland

smarter than you
Jun 4, 2004
3,477
PG B.C.
I've had a couple friends who've received sabre and state that it has affected their vision (after having recieved LASIK surgery) most complaints were that it increased starbursts at night and some feel they can't focus as clearly.

Though trainers and SABRE are both adamant the product will not have longterm effects...

I did get some on the hoo hoo when decontaminating. Even baby shampoo couldn't save me from that.:o
 

mtnbike4522

CelicaTech.com
Jul 22, 2004
2,205
Idaho
when i was in high school i worked as a lot attendant. one day we found a can of pepper spray and decided to fuck with it in the wash bay. i sprayed a bit and just the wiff i cought of it in the air kicked my ass.

then after having to be exposed to cs gas in the army.. i dont think id ever use that shit on somebody. too much risk of being hit myself
 

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