Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Hodge-Podge, Sep 9, 2003.
dose anybody know if you can even get the gun, or the ammo here in the us? and if so, @ what price?
I heard a while back that it is possible, but very highly unlikely for a civilian to own one. You would also have never be able to own the armor piercing ammo, and the ammo that you would be able to shoot through it is still very hard to get. Not really worth it for the price you woud have to pay.
it says on their website the gun is for LE and military use only
on a side note, the FiveseveN is one of the ugliest guns ever imo
still cool though
MSRP for LE/Mil is $585, so you can assume they sell for about $500 to the officials deemed worthy of owning armor piercing ammo and megaultramauler capacity magazines.
There are a very few out there for civilian purchase with 10rd magazines. i had the chance to purchase one, but they wanted about $900 more than i was willing to pay considering the only civilian available ammo is some very pricey SS192 HP load ($25/50) and considering it only holds half as many rounds as it is supposed to.
The primary advantage of the round is armor penetration anyway, don't really see the use of the gun without the intented ammunition.
If the ban sunsets in 2004 and we can buy standard capacity magazines again, we may see them hit the market in force, but until then
i know that clean97GTI is going to see this thread, and jump in, so i'll jump in before him. there are a few LE agencies across the US using them, but i haven't heard of more than two instances where the pistols have been used in the line of duty. in both cases, the target was neutralized.
however, what i read did not say how many rounds it took to accomplish this, what range the shooting was from, or where the rounds hit. clean97GTI has some pics of the ballistic gelatin tests of the 5.7 AP round. one of them is dyed black. it looks impressive until you realize that the black is the temporary wound cavity. the permanent wound cavity is in reality only just larger than the bullet. the neck on the cavity is very short, and the round does not reach the depth of penetration that's needed to insure hitting a major organ. that neck in gelatin is about 2". since the surface tension of skin alone acts the same as 2" of gelatin, you're looking at a round that starts its yaw immediately upon entering the body, which peters out too soon. if the target has clothes on, you're even more screwed on penetration.
that said, there is promise for the round, because FN and other companies realize the shortcomings of the round. they are currently working on a 5.7 round that is rumored to create a wound cavity with a longer neck prior to yawing, and a MUCH more impressive permanent wound cavity. from what i've heard, the permanent wound cavity rivals that of the 5.56 round. this is from a FMJ 5.7, so if it's true, it'd be cool. i'm not against using the round if such a thing does develop and if it's affordable in the US.
i've seen a video of an FN weapons demonstrator firing the P90 in bursts, and it had about the same muzzle flip as an M16 in the hands of a well-trained individual. but, the advantage to the P90 is that you can put 6 rounds in such a small area so quickly that you don't need as much of a permanent wound cavity. and if they're armor piercing, that's even better. but, as civilians, we're going to have to wait for a round with good terminal ballistics.
as far as police use of the Five seveN, i saw an article on it in one of the gun rags. probably either special weapons and tactics or one of the other LE mags. it had a review of the 5-7.