Discussion in 'Fitness & Nutrition' started by PurEvl, Mar 28, 2005.
Interesting read. Even more interesting is that he lives here in Rochester, NY. I wonder where he trains. He's got one hell of a physique. I really like the tiny waist huge everything else look of bodybuilders back in the day.
so pur would you ever consider doing that or hell no?
brother, Im using less an less every year, im down from 400+ to like 250-300 but only at shows, and in the off season I was eating like 180-200 and still growing but alot less bloat. Hmmmm
of course he juiced, but levels that most woman use today but it doesnt really relate to the point of this
he's got stones to do that, but I think juice is pretty relevant here.
It's very unlikely that a nonsupplemented person on a Mr O training regimen for months wouldn't waste on 60g/day, regardless of how long he'd been in protein starvation.
This is not to say that protein req's have not been overblown (they have), or that protein cycling doesn't work (it does). Just that his example requires a very unusual hormone state, which most people couldn't acheive naturally.
take a look at just about every person on here, there fat in the belly and very little muscle...now ask yourself why. When I eat 4k calories at 250 pounds CLEAN OR ON I gain fat. I can count on one hand the number of people in here that warrant 4k calories. Protein is needed most when your in a deficent state, aka very lean (competing) For the typical gym noob you should be concentrating more on a balance with carbs being higher then fats/proteins. I will bet anyone in here they will make more or the same gains at 200 protein then they will at 300-400 and they will be leaner. Try me
On a regular day I only get about 200-250 @ 230lbs. When I am bulking I have never had a problem putting on muscle at this level.
up it to 300-350, I bet you get fatter at most, I will even bet at 150 you wouldnt lose one ounce of muscle but you would end up leaner
What about me PUr you think I should lower my protein intake? I'm at around 350 or more right now.
Yeah I used to take in like 300+ but then I got sick of cooking meat and shit so for the last few months I've been down to like 200-225 and I haven't noticed any muscle/strength loss, dunno about being leaner though cuz I've replaced some of the protein with mass quanities of reeces peanut butter cups
I don't know much about protein, I just get 30g a meal with 7 meals a day. It's done me fine, and If i go less I'm so much more hungry between meals.
210g is proly around 2g per pound for me.
I have no studies but I'm sure it depends on each person. Someone may have like an over production of the enzyme which breaks down protein and can survive on alot less than most guys.
The best bet is too just experiment yourself..but I know shit out of my own experiance with protein cos I've never really researched it.
By the way, when you say you've made more gains by lowering protein, make sure it's not that you're muscles are not just pumped from the extra carbs.
The same happens with people on atkins or CKD, when carb depleted there muscles look flat and when carbs are increased there pumped again. They never really lose muscle, they just never really get a carb pump.
Im sure pure knows the difference, he is experienced, if you can call it that.
Ya, I don't force myself to eat protein though. I just really like meat, then I will usually have a post workout shake. Maybe one at lunch if I got absolutely no protein at lunch (ie. I had cereal).
There are only two situations I can think of (other than protein cycling) where a person should make an effort to cut their protein intake:
1) filling up on protein to the exclusion of adequate nutrition and energy to work out (common noob mistake)
2) taking so much protein your body starts passing it automatically instead of using it efficiently
If you're not at these extremes, higher protein will tend to keep you leaner. It makes you less likely to retain water, and less hungry for peanut butter cups.
behold: the thread that changes one more bandwagon opinion
I know this is pretty freaky, but this sparked my memory of a very old timberwolf training thread (Ibstalker)
He weighs alot less than most of you guys but hitting that much protein made him stay just as lean but gain 2-3 lbs.
I'm not saying you can put a set blanket amount of protein. Infact, protein is probably the hardest macro-nutrient to set a blanket requirement for.
Anyone who thinks high protein = the win is wrong.
Enough protein to hit an adequate nitrogen balance = the win. Seeming that changes between person to person and quite possible day to day your best bet is too just find out your self.
edit - God damn my spelling sucks...
I'd say 1.5 grams per pound of bodyweight, obviously spread throughout the day to keep up an adequate nitrogen balance to substain muscle devolpment.
I'd love to here opinions on whether that's right or not, check out dexter jacksons website, he's got a calculator of what he thinks the adequate protein amount is:
http://www.dexterjacksonshredded.com/main.html Head over to the training section and it's in the bottom left corner.
I know you all like to think you train as hard as me, but you dont..plain an simple. Christophers does but in a different way, I leave my open invite to any of you to come an try it. Superbri thought he trained intense, he was hanging after the 2nd exercise. I backed everything way off so he could continue with me. The only time any off you should be considering 300+ protein is when
A Your at least 200 LBM
B in a state where the protein is needed to keep muscle on ie..low carbs/fats/dieting
C train hard enough to warrant it
The invite stands...come try a workout with me, I was humbled 3 years ago by lou ferrigno, I thought I trained hard...his everyday workout made me a bitch. Please stop with the "what you read BS" Lets talk what you have done and what you look like right now. In the offseason I hold 260+ 12% with 200-250 protein at most, please tell me why any of you would need more? Im all ears.
With the right amount of carbs/fats in the off season protein can be lowered greatly, unless your going for sub 5% levels theres no need.
This is just opinion of course
If im ever in MA or you are in CA i will train with you
edit - and i know you would kick my ass but it would be a great reality check
you know you got it anytime, you will warrant this when you get on stage, I look forward to it