GUN fraternization

shiba

Active Member
Feb 10, 2006
1,674
Can someone clarify this for me. Is a senior NCO (E7) in a leadership position allowed to have relations with a junior NCO (E5) which is one of his soldiers?
 

RoblesGT

#PuertoRicoLibre
OT Supporter
Aug 10, 2001
65,922
San Diego
Can someone clarify this for me. Is a senior NCO (E7) in a leadership position allowed to have relations with a junior NCO (E5) which is one of his soldiers?

According to the UCMJ if you are in his/her chain of command ... (which is always a yes because any superior is in your chain of command wether you like it or not) ... then its forbidden.

That being said, many of my E4, E5, and E6's that I had in my chain of command fucked their subordinates ... just dont make it obvious and tell the whore to stfu about it.
 

widds2v

Active Member
Jan 5, 2005
17,968
Coronado, CA
wait, wat?

He's wrong. An E7 can have a relationship with an E6 if they are at different commands. One up/One down.

We just has a 14 year E6 busted down to E5 for sleeping with a chief onboard the ship :noes: And a frocked master chief lose his promotion and is back at senior chief (he got it super fast too, like 13-14 year E9) for making out with an E5 :noes::noes:
 

widds2v

Active Member
Jan 5, 2005
17,968
Coronado, CA
officer/enlisted are always forbidden unless you were married prior to the fact.

senior/junior relationship (ie, E7 & E6) are not forbidden.. as long as you're not at the same command.
 

RoblesGT

#PuertoRicoLibre
OT Supporter
Aug 10, 2001
65,922
San Diego
wait, wat?

look at promotion warrants ... pretty much says anyone of lesser grade must obey all lawful orders coming from you ... so you are "indirectly" in their chain of command ...

"i do strictly charge all personnel of lesser grade to render obedience to appropriate orders"
 

Gatsby

New Member
Apr 18, 2005
18,699
nogerO
officer/enlisted are always forbidden unless you were married prior to the fact.

senior/junior relationship (ie, E7 & E6) are not forbidden.. as long as you're not at the same command.

It's still frowned upon, especially E4 and below with an NCO.
 

Gatsby

New Member
Apr 18, 2005
18,699
nogerO
I should be politically correct here. But I know alot of enlisted guys (and girls) who actively pursue female officers just to take that "power" from them. Kinda like a game.
 

nsxrebel

New Member
May 22, 2006
3,113
It's still frowned upon, especially E4 and below with an NCO.

Must be in the Chairforce? :dunno: E-4's in the Marine Corps, Navy, and some Army are NCO's.

As for fraternization, it was my understanding that it was ok to talk to someone withing your peer group, ie. Privates-Lance Corporals(Non-NCO's) Corporals & Sergeants (NCO's) Staff Sergeant - Sgt Major/Master Gunnery Sgt. (SNCO's)
 

widds2v

Active Member
Jan 5, 2005
17,968
Coronado, CA
Must be in the Chairforce? :dunno: E-4's in the Marine Corps, Navy, and some Army are NCO's.

As for fraternization, it was my understanding that it was ok to talk to someone withing your peer group, ie. Privates-Lance Corporals(Non-NCO's) Corporals & Sergeants (NCO's) Staff Sergeant - Sgt Major/Master Gunnery Sgt. (SNCO's)

It is different in the Navy though. You guys consider "SCNO's" to be E6 & above. In the Navy, khaki begins at E7, E6 is grouped with E4-E6. E4 even though technically is a petty officer just like E5 & E6 are almost never grouped with them, as once you hit E5 you're considered a more senior leader. Anytime they need to create groups of ranks, it will usually be E4 & below, E5/E6, and E7 & above. In reality you will not get in trouble as an E4 hooking up with an E3 and in the navy E1-E3 are treated the same, since it is just a "wait so many months" promotion deal. You wont get hassled in the Navy as long as you keep it "one up/one down". If you're an E6 and people know you're dating an E4 you'll hear shit about it.. not so much if you're dating an E5 (of course it all depends on the situation.. obviously if you're in the same department and/or division the E6 could be considered your supervisor and that makes the relationship unduly familiar no matter the rank).

And if you ask any Navy person who has never been on Teh Barracks and/or been stationed on an amphib (or IA now I guess) what a NCO is you're just going to get a blank stare. ;)
 

thekinggovernor

President Joe Biden Vice President Kamala Harris
Aug 11, 2003
190,362
CAROFUCKINGLINAS
look at promotion warrants ... pretty much says anyone of lesser grade must obey all lawful orders coming from you ... so you are "indirectly" in their chain of command ...

"i do strictly charge all personnel of lesser grade to render obedience to appropriate orders"
yea they have a higher rank than you but they are not in your chain of command.
 

Zourn

16-bit Ninja
OT Supporter
Apr 3, 2002
2,316
Texas
It is different in the Navy though. You guys consider "SCNO's" to be E6 & above. In the Navy, khaki begins at E7, E6 is grouped with E4-E6. E4 even though technically is a petty officer just like E5 & E6 are almost never grouped with them, as once you hit E5 you're considered a more senior leader. Anytime they need to create groups of ranks, it will usually be E4 & below, E5/E6, and E7 & above. In reality you will not get in trouble as an E4 hooking up with an E3 and in the navy E1-E3 are treated the same, since it is just a "wait so many months" promotion deal. You wont get hassled in the Navy as long as you keep it "one up/one down". If you're an E6 and people know you're dating an E4 you'll hear shit about it.. not so much if you're dating an E5 (of course it all depends on the situation.. obviously if you're in the same department and/or division the E6 could be considered your supervisor and that makes the relationship unduly familiar no matter the rank).

This changes based on your command and manning. But for the most part I've always seen E-1 to E-3, E-4 to E-6, E-7+.

And if you ask any Navy person who has never been on Teh Barracks and/or been stationed on an amphib (or IA now I guess) what a NCO is you're just going to get a blank stare. ;)
I was already an E-5 the first time I heard the term NCO, took me forever to figure out what it meant.
 

RoblesGT

#PuertoRicoLibre
OT Supporter
Aug 10, 2001
65,922
San Diego
yea they have a higher rank than you but they are not in your chain of command.

if you get an asshole of a staff NCO that wants to burn your ass, he can do so based on that.

Example. I'm a Corporal and I'm fucking with a PFC that works in a different shop, not my own. My Sgt hates me, which was true, :mamoru:. She can therefore charge me with fraternization because even though that PFC isnt in my shop, she is still required by my promotion warrant and her own to obey any lawful order given by me, which therefore placer me in her chain of command. It's petty but if someone has it out for you, shit can get slung easy. Shit barely happens though.
 

Blackfox

Active Member
Mar 24, 2008
4,084
if you get an asshole of a staff NCO that wants to burn your ass, he can do so based on that.

Example. I'm a Corporal and I'm fucking with a PFC that works in a different shop, not my own. My Sgt hates me, which was true, :mamoru:. She can therefore charge me with fraternization because even though that PFC isnt in my shop, she is still required by my promotion warrant and her own to obey any lawful order given by me, which therefore placer me in her chain of command. It's petty but if someone has it out for you, shit can get slung easy. Shit barely happens though.
Yea, wrong. You have no idea what a chain of command or an NCO support channel is.
 

GiRaff3

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2003
7,571
PA
there is only ONE NCO in a chain of command, the rest are in the NCO support channel. now that we have that out of the way...

it really depends on the nature of the relationship...if they aren't in the same unit, met in an appropriate manner (out in public randomely, or something similar), then it would not be a big deal.
 

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