LOVE Gay leaders furious at obama

DouggieJ

OT Supporter
Nov 1, 2007
8,080
New York, NY USA
I'll just repost what I said in DIACF:

I don't understand the surprise, Obama has always said he was against gay marriage. I guess these people just assumed he was lying?
 

novo

how's your dad?
OT Supporter
Oct 18, 2005
47,986
Low Haight
picking Rick Warren is a mistake for other reasons than just the gay rights aspects.

wack
 

PanasonicYouth

New Member
Nov 18, 2008
313
The man's a Christian, raised by Baptists, it's not too much of a surprise.

The one good thing about the UK I suppose is that we're pretty live and let live around here when it comes to sexuality. Legally anyway.

Could be worse, at least Fred Phelps isn't running the place.
 

blaq19

New Member
Dec 2, 2006
2,614
Bmore - Manhattan
The man's a Christian, raised by Baptists, it's not too much of a surprise.

The one good thing about the UK I suppose is that we're pretty live and let live around here when it comes to sexuality. Legally anyway.

Could be worse, at least Fred Phelps isn't running the place.

What are the laws of the land in the UK?
 

PanasonicYouth

New Member
Nov 18, 2008
313
Civil Partnerships are legal, and aren't frowned upon as much as they seem to be in the States.

Unfortunately, they aren't recognised as marriages as such, but there have been some interesting legal developments (Celia Kitzinger and Sue Wilkinson) that would suggest legal submission in the future.

I think the whole attitude to gay couples here is a healthier one. I'm not really qualified to make that judgement though, having only just come out over here and having never lived stateside...
 

ondizo

New Member
Dec 9, 2008
31
New York City
Civil Partnerships are legal, and aren't frowned upon as much as they seem to be in the States.

Unfortunately, they aren't recognised as marriages as such, but there have been some interesting legal developments (Celia Kitzinger and Sue Wilkinson) that would suggest legal submission in the future.

I think the whole attitude to gay couples here is a healthier one. I'm not really qualified to make that judgement though, having only just come out over here and having never lived stateside...

Having lived in both London and New York my clear impression is that England is far more gay friendly than America. For the main part, English people are far less sensitive about homosexuality and far more tolerant/accepting of gay relationships. America, as a country, likes to think it represents "liberty for all" but that's clearly not the case when it comes to gays. On this one issue alone - gay rights and quality of life for gay people - England is a clear winner over the USA.
 

DouggieJ

OT Supporter
Nov 1, 2007
8,080
New York, NY USA
I don't understand what the problem many gays have with civil unions. As long as they provide the same legal benefits marriage does, I think they're great. It seems some in this fight are in it just to piss off more conservative, religious people. I think this attitude is working against the cause, not helpful at all.
 

PanasonicYouth

New Member
Nov 18, 2008
313
I don't understand what the problem many gays have with civil unions. As long as they provide the same legal benefits marriage does, I think they're great. It seems some in this fight are in it just to piss off more conservative, religious people. I think this attitude is working against the cause, not helpful at all.

This is in some way true, but I suppose the main argument is that it is not actually equal rights until they are one and the same?

A wedding does not have to be a religious ceremony, so I don't see what the problem would be.
 

philvia

SUCKIN ON MY TITTIES LIKE YOU WANTIN ME CALLIN ME
May 3, 2007
11,580
NYC
I don't understand what the problem many gays have with civil unions. As long as they provide the same legal benefits marriage does, I think they're great. It seems some in this fight are in it just to piss off more conservative, religious people. I think this attitude is working against the cause, not helpful at all.


i never understood the problems blacks had with separate schools/bathrooms/water fountains/etc. Less people, less germs, less awkward social interactions... whats the problem? :dunno:
 

Sam Gamgee

Every tool is weapon if you hold it right.
OT Supporter
Oct 5, 2001
83,341
Western MA
I'm ok with it because I see Rick Warren as a centrist, mostly.

I'm willing to give Obama some slack on this one, specifically given who he's chosen to give the benediction and his choice for cabinet including an open lesbian.

Obama is not going to be the gay community's Martin Luther King, Jr. We need to find that person in our own community. I'm often surprised when gay people get so angry because Obama's not 100% on our side. That's not, nor has it ever been, his platform.

The important thing to remember is that he has promised to be (and has already shown himself to be) the most gay-inclusive President ever.
 

ondizo

New Member
Dec 9, 2008
31
New York City
I am not ok with this selection whatsoever. It's seriouslly appalling actually.

But I never did support Obama so I am not surprised. He has ZERO record of LEADING on gay rights issues which is somewhat embarressing given he is supposed to be a Democrat.

I am just one person, but being gay I find his selection of RW as extremely offensive.
 

ondizo

New Member
Dec 9, 2008
31
New York City
I don't understand what the problem many gays have with civil unions. As long as they provide the same legal benefits marriage does, I think they're great. It seems some in this fight are in it just to piss off more conservative, religious people. I think this attitude is working against the cause, not helpful at all.

Civil unions do NOT provide the same legal benefits as marriage.

Civil unions are state-based arrangements which have ZERO relevance at a FEDERAL level.

Many laws/benefits/rights of marriage are provided at the federal level and gay civil unions have zero access to these.

So not only are civil unions placing gay/lesbian couples in a separate class, which is a discrimination, they do not provide anywhere near the same rights/benefits/protections that marriages do.

It's not about trying to piss off anyone - it's about equality.

Do you think when black people asked for equal rights in this country their intention was purely to piss people off? No. I bet, however, many entitled and racist white people weren't very happy at having to share some of their power with black people. Shame on those black people for wanting to be treated as equals! See how ridiculous that sounds? The same applies to gay rights. Many straight people are so entitled and selfish when it comes to matters of marriage and gay rights that they cannot even see how absurd & discriminatory their views are.

Overall, it's about expecting and wanting to be treated as an equal, not some sub-standard form of human being. It is, seemingly, a difficult concept for many to grasp. Fortunately attitudes are improving slowly and hopefully at some point the USA will catch up with many other countries around the world in realizing the importance of treating LGBT people with dignity and equal protection under the law.
 
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DouggieJ

OT Supporter
Nov 1, 2007
8,080
New York, NY USA
Civil unions do NOT provide the same legal benefits as marriage.

Civil unions are state-based arrangements which have ZERO relevance at a FEDERAL level.

Many laws/benefits/rights of marriage are provided at the federal level and gay civil unions have zero access to these.


This is a ridiculous argument, since any gay union recognized by any State whether called marriage or anything else is not recognized by the Federal government. Please see the Defense of Marriage Act.

If any such unions are to ever be recognized, it certainly would be best to start with the civil union route, since calling it "marriage" is divisive.
 

blaq19

New Member
Dec 2, 2006
2,614
Bmore - Manhattan
i never understood the problems blacks had with separate schools/bathrooms/water fountains/etc. Less people, less germs, less awkward social interactions... whats the problem? :dunno:

My grandmother went to separate schools and whatnot and she said back then she preferred it at the time but I dunno.
 

Kitler

Fabulously Gay
Jun 16, 2007
2,558
Seattle, Wa.
Civil Partnerships are legal, and aren't frowned upon as much as they seem to be in the States.

Unfortunately, they aren't recognised as marriages as such, but there have been some interesting legal developments (Celia Kitzinger and Sue Wilkinson) that would suggest legal submission in the future.

I think the whole attitude to gay couples here is a healthier one. I'm not really qualified to make that judgement though, having only just come out over here and having never lived stateside...
How hard is the immigration into the UK? I really want to move there for college, and wondering if that is at all possible?

I really want to move out of the states :hs:
 

RedGoober4Life

New Member
Sep 11, 2003
3,838
DTW
Student visas are easy to obtain. Finding business sponsorship may be difficult after college. Other countries don't seem to have as stringent immigration policies like Jesusland.

I know that the UK is opening up immigration for Chemical Engineers. Lucky me. :)
 

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