I've just recently came to this forum and I have seen a lot of guys-who are probably good guys-having some serious girl problems. These problems are primarily of their own doing, whether it be from their own inexperience, from the misconceptions that women give us, or just from plain old lack of self respect. The first thing I want to clear up, is the idea that women want jerks and the nice guy finishes last. This is a huge misconception that naive guys always think is the truth of the situation when the reality is something different. The fault for such thinking is not soley resting on these naive guys shoulders, but also on the shoulders of women. Why? Women are not always honest to these guys because they don't want to hurt these guys feelings by telling the truth-probably because they are close friends with these guys. The truth of the Jerk vs Nice Guy crud is very simple. Women don't like to be treated bad by jerks, but they end up with a lot of guys like that because they cannot be attracted to a guy who has no self respect, and nor should she. A woman needs a guy to be a partner with in a relationship, she needs someone who is an equal to her and challenges her just as she challenges him. The problem with a lot of these Nice Guys is that they worship the women they love. These guys tend to think that there are a lot of Jerks out there and they will show this girl what a real Nice Guy can do, and they will do anything they can in a constant attempt to prove that. That comes across as very insecure. If you are a Nice Guy, she will learn this about you without your effort. The problem with this is that these guys will do anything for her and treat her like an angel, putting her needs ahead of his own. Therein lies the problem. If you basically give up you own needs and wants to give her everything, you are becoming a pushover doormat. A guy with no self respect, an insecure guy who feels that to prove his love he has to put her ahead in everything. The ultimate result backfires because no woman needs their significant other to hold them on a pedastle and worship them. They need a equal partner, someone who challenges them and can grow with them. The type of guy that has self respect doesn't always put her needs first because he is an individual as well. He too has goals and plans of his own, and he is going to do them. A self respecting guy doesn't feel the need to do whatever she wants because he knows he loves her and he knows that she knows this as well. He doesn't have to prove it to her. Also, a self respecting guy doesn't lay down for her when she does something wrong, or forgive her for whatever she does without giving her hell for it. A self respecting guy doesn't say, "You hurt me when you cheated on me baby, but I love you and I forgive you." He says, "If you cheat on me, then you don't love me the way I deserve to be loved. That is not the relationship I want, so it's over." This guy does not aplogize for himself when he has done no wrong. If she gets mad at him for something he didn't do, he is not going to pull the Nice Guy routine of apologizing to make it all better, he stands up for himself. He won't be disrespected even if it costs him the relationship, because if it does cost the relationship then that girl wasn't a good enough girlfriend to begin with. The Nice Guy fears losing his girl on a pedastle, so even if he is wronged, he tries to make it better and to patch things up. That is the kind of behavior that will make her eventually lose all respect for you and she will cheat on you or leave you. Maybe now you can see where the Jerk confusion comes into play. Ever wonder why a girl says that she and her boyfriend got into a fight and that her boyfriend is a jerk, only to go right back to him with even greater fervor than before? I bet that made you confused and frustrated as hell, and you think that women must like jerks. Chances are that he was not a jerk after all, but instead wouldn't back down to some bullshit she pulled and she is frustrated and upset about it. But... she respects him. He's a mans man. Now there really are some jerks out there, but a lot of the time it is just a guy who won't tolerate being treated like crap or disrespected. A guy like that is attractive because self confidence IS an attractive quality. A guy who always apologizes for himself is not attractive because he lacks that confidence and self respect. He NEEDS her attention so bad to be happy that he does anything he can to please her, and that is seriously pathetic. In fact, this behavior only sends the signal to the girl that she can use him and do whatever she wants, he will always forgive her. How can you respect that? How can you ask HER to respect that? I used an analogy on the initiation forum to relate to a lot of guys who may be inexperiences with dating. The analogy comes from Star Wars. Yes, I know... but it surprisingly is a good one. Think about it. Star Wars has two trilogies, and two love stories. The original series has Han Solo and Princess Leia. The new trilogy has Anakin Skywalker and Senator Padme. Han Solo is a mans man, a self respecting guy. He has strong feelings for Princess Leia, but the two clash all of the time. Does Han apologize for himself? Does he fear that Leia won't like him if she thinks he is a jerk? No. In fact, Han goes so far as to call her out quite a bit when she is asking for it. Is Han Solo a jerk? I bet Princess Leia would have told her wussy clingy guy friend that he was. But Leia respected Han, Leia loved Han. Then there is Anakin. From the very begining Anakin shows his needy clingy wussy side, and it's pretty annoying. Do we doubt that Anakin loved Padme? No. But there was a reason why the critics slammed this love story, it was because it lacked something. I'd say it is not very believable because Padme wouldn't have liked Anakin. Her falling for him was unbelievable because it just wasn't realistic. Anakin whined to Obi Wan about how he needed to be near her, how she was intoxicating. Anakin professed how much love he had to her, spilling his guts like a schoolboy and basically looking helpless to his feelings for her. It was pathetic. There was even a scene where someone asked Anakin for his opinion on a subject and Padme cuts him off, disrespecting him. Anakin starts to challenge her but once she gets angry he apologizes. She wronged him and he apologizes. Anakin is the Nice Guy, Han is the Jerk. I'd rather be Han, wouldn't you? If you respect yourself you would. If you want a fulfilling real relationship you would. That's a lot of information so I'll stop for now.