Discussion in 'Fitness & Nutrition' started by Drewski, May 5, 2007.
Cos fat makes you fat, right?
I'm not a calories only mentality but the way it's written suggests that by eating a high fat diet, the rats should have been fat. At no point did they mention whether the rats were eating less, correct or more calories than they should have.
Also many people have bulked and cut on high % fat diets with great success. Fats are generally more filling and satiating so they're pretty good on a cut, even though they're more calorie dense.
I have a high-fat diet and am currently bulking...My fat gain has been minimal. Im pretty sure timber did the same exact thing...
To me its more of a matter of not combining fat and carbs in the same meal...
What matters is calories, but calories that your body can use. To use fat, the body "wastes" 4% of its energy, about the same number for carbs and around 20% for protein (it's called the "thermic effect of food" or "diet induced thermogenesis").
Excess fat over maintenance is also directly and easily turned into bodyfat, carbs are turned into bodyfat if your glycogen stores are filled and protein has to be converted to glucose before being stored (and there's already 20% less energy as said earlier) and then it is used as a carb by the body. Fiber is usually not used by the body as energy (although it can to some extent) and soluble fiber can even absorb some fat in the intestinal tract thus lowering the amount of cals used by the body even though we ate it.
So basically, we have to take into account that the body isn't a calometric bomb like they use to count cals in food, it is inefficient to a certain extent and we can use this.
funny you mention that, because i was ready just yesterday, that they dont' use bomb calorimetry to count food cal's. These use chemical analysis because i is more accurate, ie doesn't count fiber in caloric calculations.
Yeah, I know that they use some corrections when counting cals because of the body's inneficiency, but then again, they don't take out 20% of the protein caloric content for example. And we all vary when talking about the absorption of food and how our body uses it. Those who are skinny mofos can have a a limited absorption and an inefficient use of the cals taken in and their body just speeds up when talking more cals thus wasting it by heating the body which is why some people complain about feeling hot as hell and sweating when overeating.
So should fiber intake even be included in my calorie count for the day?
Some don't, some do... I don't care enough to take it out it from my total when I count, it compensates for the sauces/condiments I use.
is this stuff TTA?
Tetradecylthioacetic acid (TTA) is a non-beta-oxidizable fatty acid analog, which potently regulates lipid homeostasis. Here we evaluate the ability of TTA to prevent diet-induced and genetically determined adiposity and insulin resistance. In Wistar rats fed a high fat diet, TTA administration completely prevented diet-induced insulin resistance and adiposity. In genetically obese Zucker (fa/fa) rats TTA treatment reduced the epididymal adipose tissue mass and improved insulin sensitivity. All three rodent peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor (PPAR) subtypes were activated by TTA in the ranking order PPARalpha > PPARdelta > PPARgamma. Expression of PPARgamma target genes in adipose tissue was unaffected by TTA treatment, whereas the hepatic expression of PPARalpha-responsive genes encoding enzymes involved in fatty acid uptake, transport, and oxidation was induced. This was accompanied by increased hepatic mitochondrial beta-oxidation and a decreased fatty acid/ketone body ratio in plasma. These findings indicate that PPARalpha-dependent mechanisms play a pivotal role, but additionally, the involvement of PPARalpha-independent pathways is conceivable. Taken together, our results suggest that a TTA-induced increase in hepatic fatty acid oxidation and ketogenesis drains fatty acids from blood and extrahepatic tissues and that this contributes significantly to the beneficial effects of TTA on fat mass accumulation and peripheral insulin sensitivity.
I didn't think the TEF for protein was anywhere near 20%.
Honest question - so why not just say that protein is 3kcal per gram?
That is me exactly. I was 130lbs and had to bulk on 4500kcal to see any weight gain. I also just felt really hot and uncomfortable all the time. Currently at 180 and starting a new bulk on 5200kcal
I've never heard about the absorption thing though. Your body should be absorbing everything you eat and it will be using it for something. ALthough, like you said, it won't necessarily be used for building muscle - it may be for heat, glycogen, fat stores etc etc. If you're not absorbing everything you eat (apart from fiber etc) then you have a faulty GI tract.
But anyway, we're totally missing the point here.
For most people who aren't weightlifters and are overweight, they don't need gene-altering exercise pills. They need to eat less calories than they use and they need to start exercising. For 99% of people, that will give them the results they want - general fat and weight loss. Those of us who strive for maintaining a lot of muscle mass and keeping low body fat are the only ones who really need to be worrying about the little stuff. And even then, a lot of us (i'm guilty) concentrate on the small stuff too much.