Homeowner/HVAC crew question.

[DWI]

Master of Nothing
Aug 6, 2000
22,877
Maine
We are looking at adding Mini-split units in our house to retrofit cooling and handle shoulder season heating.

We've down to two very similar proposals that seem to make sense. The only real difference between the two is the one uses a multi-zone outdoor unit, while the other uses 1-to-1 indoor and outdoor units.

Each point to their own pros, 1-to-1 seems to have better efficiency numbers and redundancy, while multi-zone has lower upfront/install costs and less moving parts/points of failure. The cons are basically the opposite of the other's pros.

So what do the guru's of OT say?
 

nosaj

OT Supporter
Nov 10, 2003
112,005
Definitely not a DIY, My dad installs Fujitsu I have never helped on an install so have a bump.
 

Leonard Washington

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2004
45,768
I thought the point was they are dyi? Why would you need quotes just order some and install them?

Not a DYI by a long stretch. Gotta be wired into the panel, drill a hole in your wall and shit. It was the only upgrade I’ve done to my house that I had to get a professional in for. Plus the warranty was void if it wasn’t installed by the company and wired by a red seal electrician
 

whatever

OT Supporter
Feb 18, 2004
214,386
I thought the point was they are dyi? Why would you need quotes just order some and install them?

some are. mr cool is the name brand.

the good units are not. you gotta flare and pull a vacuum. other wise its pretty easy.
 
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93rx7

OT Supporter
Feb 14, 2009
43,946
Your base
some are. mr cool is the name brand.

the good units are not. you gotta flare and pull a vacuum. other wise its pretty easy.

ive had the flare tool and vacuum pump in my amazon cart for years

i scrapped the heated floor idea and am going with a 4 zone mini split. will be installing it so it should be entertaining.
 
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93rx7

OT Supporter
Feb 14, 2009
43,946
Your base
those dudes make it look easy, I got an 18k btu unit installed and it was functional in 4 hours. Dudes were legit, they definitely had a knack

if youre putting in multiple units youll be a pro by the time you get to the last one

protip: put the first one in the room you care about the least tbh
 

whatever

OT Supporter
Feb 18, 2004
214,386
ive had the flare tool and vacuum pump in my amazon cart for years

i scrapped the heated floor idea and am going with a 4 zone mini split. will be installing it so it should be entertaining.

i would never give up my heated floor in the bathroom.


if i build a house it will have a poured concrete floor with heat in it. its way way too good IMO.
 
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nosaj

OT Supporter
Nov 10, 2003
112,005
i would never give up my heated floor in the bathroom.


if i build a house it will have a poured concrete floor with heat in it. its way way too good IMO.
Rich friend heated his man cave/garage floor.
 
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[DWI]

[DWI]

Master of Nothing
Aug 6, 2000
22,877
Maine
id personally go multi head vs a 1:1 setup. unless its just 2 units at opposite ends of the house.


i would consider going 2 multi head units for redundancy sake. if one breaks the whole house isnt fucked.

A full house retrofit, due mostly to layout and closed doors, would be either 5 or 6 heads; 3 bedrooms and a common area on each floor. One of the common areas could be handled by one large unit or two smaller units, hence the 5 or 6 heads. We still deciding whether to do the whole house or a more limited approach.

There is a possibility on the full retrofit to do 2 multi-head units and on the 6 zone route it is pretty much a sure thing.

Is there a specific reason you would go for the multi over the 1-to-1?
 

Leonard Washington

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2004
45,768
i plan to heat my sidewalks and driveway. :rofl: miles of pex pipe

I used to work with a fat rich dude who heated his driveway so we all made fun of how lazy he was, but it was the Most baller shit of all time and I believe it was a solar water heater as well so operation was basically free
 
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nosaj

OT Supporter
Nov 10, 2003
112,005
A full house retrofit, due mostly to layout and closed doors, would be either 5 or 6 heads; 3 bedrooms and a common area on each floor. One of the common areas could be handled by one large unit or two smaller units, hence the 5 or 6 heads. We still deciding whether to do the whole house or a more limited approach.

There is a possibility on the full retrofit to do 2 multi-head units and on the 6 zone route it is pretty much a sure thing.

Is there a specific reason you would go for the multi over the 1-to-1?
The more you explain the more I think you're filthy rich :rofl2:
 

whatever

OT Supporter
Feb 18, 2004
214,386
A full house retrofit, due mostly to layout and closed doors, would be either 5 or 6 heads; 3 bedrooms and a common area on each floor. One of the common areas could be handled by one large unit or two smaller units, hence the 5 or 6 heads. We still deciding whether to do the whole house or a more limited approach.

There is a possibility on the full retrofit to do 2 multi-head units and on the 6 zone route it is pretty much a sure thing.

Is there a specific reason you would go for the multi over the 1-to-1?

1:1 will not be as energy efficient. running watts will be higher. more losses. but there are some factors with that.

also 6 outside units will be :rofl: looking. like you got a hotel.

i would do sleeping areas and living areas. 1 unit for each. multiple heads. the end.
 

nosaj

OT Supporter
Nov 10, 2003
112,005
I used to work with a fat rich dude who heated his driveway so we all made fun of how lazy he was, but it was the Most baller shit of all time and I believe it was a solar water heater as well so operation was basically free
Dude went to his condo in Miami in the winter. Friends mom took care of the house when he was gone.
 
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[DWI]

[DWI]

Master of Nothing
Aug 6, 2000
22,877
Maine
I thought the point was they are dyi? Why would you need quotes just order some and install them?

There are some DIY with pre-charged lines, but they aren't as good and do not have any real local support for repairs, at least as far as I can tell.

As for DIY'ing the good stuff?

Legally: You need an EPA certification (608 Type II, I think) to let the refrigerant out.
Electrically: You'll be pulling a 240v circuit for each
Plumbing: You'll at least be cutting and flaring copper tubing
Meh-to-scary: you'll be punching holes in the exterior of your house
Math is hard yo: Heat load calcs look scary AF.
Support: DIY if without being licensed HVAC (or at least EPA certified) if not certified by the manufacturer and no warranty for you.

Overcome or ignore all of that and one could DIY it.
 
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[DWI]

[DWI]

Master of Nothing
Aug 6, 2000
22,877
Maine
1:1 will not be as energy efficient. running watts will be higher. more losses. but there are some factors with that.

also 6 outside units will be :rofl: looking. like you got a hotel.

i would do sleeping areas and living areas. 1 unit for each. multiple heads. the end.

When I looked to backup the claim of more efficient, albeit briefly, the rated numbers seemed to back that claim. I will have to look closer at that.

As for 6 outdoor, yeah odd as heck, but I actually have a place I could place them under the deck and you'd never seem them.

Cooling load is about 4 tons and heating load is about 6 tons, of course when the full 6 tons is needed it is cold enough that ASHP's could be reduced output.
 

whatever

OT Supporter
Feb 18, 2004
214,386
When I looked to backup the claim of more efficient, albeit briefly, the rated numbers seemed to back that claim. I will have to look closer at that.

As for 6 outdoor, yeah odd as heck, but I actually have a place I could place them under the deck and you'd never seem them.

Cooling load is about 4 tons and heating load is about 6 tons, of course when the full 6 tons is needed it is cold enough that ASHP's could be reduced output.

under the deck? hope its a second floor deck and not a fuck the service guy deck.


6 heads. again i'd go bedrooms and common areas. 2 multi heads. redundancy. smaller size outside units. and not filling up your electrical panel with 12 breakers :rofl:
 
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[DWI]

[DWI]

Master of Nothing
Aug 6, 2000
22,877
Maine
i plan to heat my sidewalks and driveway. :rofl: miles of pex pipe

I got a co-worker, who is went halfway. He has a snow melt pad. Pushes all the snow there with his tractor (that he keeps in his heated garage) and flips the switch.

Giant ass ice sheet going down the hill next to the pad.
 

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