Housing market is too far gone.

Hisma

OT Supporter
Apr 2, 2006
51,788
Reno, NV
It's nothing to do with being a salesman. As you just acknowledged, she's just starting out. No harm in that. But as someone "just starting out", she shouldn't be pre-judging VA buyers as less-than-equal. She doesn't have the knowledge or experience to make that determination yet. Unfortunately, it's an unfair stigma that's pervasive in the RE world because a lot of agents don't know (or don't care to know) and make assumptions based on bad information. If she's trying to help veteran buyers and already has a misconception that VA loans are bad, then she's not doing her buyers any favors, because she doesn't know how to present them correctly. If she's on the listing side and is looking at VA offers as lesser-quality, then she's doing a disservice to her sellers, AND keeping a likely well qualified veteran out of a home (avg credit scores on all VA loans is about 715). I only bring it up because veterans who are well qualified slam dunk buyers have had a hard time in this market getting their offers accepted because agents turn their noses up at VA financing thinking that it's a shitty borrower who can barely qualify, and more often than not it's the furthest thing from the truth. I would encourage you (and her) to dive into VA financing and learn about it, so that way she can really help veterans when they need it. Most agents don't know shit about VA loans, so she could even carve out a niche market by being a VA expert in her area, in a segment that a lot of agents don't understand or want anything to do with.
I've done nothing but VA loans (2 homes and a refi).
Stigma probably comes from the misconception that the average military vet is a mouth breathing loser that joined to escape drugs or poverty.
Plenty of those out there, but to qualify for a VA loan you need to be honorably discharged, which washes out a lot of the trash. From there you have everything from tradies to engineers to executives as vets. And if they can make it through a 4+ year enlistment, chances are they have their shit together better than the average Joe schmo applying for a conventional mortgage.
 
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May 8, 2001
30,981
Colorado
I've done nothing but VA loans (2 homes and a refi).
Stigma probably comes from the misconception that the average military vet is a mouth breathing loser that joined to escape drugs or poverty.
Plenty of those out there, but to qualify for a VA loan you need to be honorably discharged, which washes out a lot of the trash. From there you have everything from tradies to engineers to executives as vets. And if they can make it through a 4+ year enlistment, chances are they have their shit together better than the average Joe schmo applying for a conventional mortgage.
Nah, they just have MPRs that a lot of seller's would prefer not dealing with. If the property is sound however (in a balanced market), there's really no reason not to. They're easy to complete offers with guaranteed money.
 
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saabguy

Saab-free since 2013. Mortgage guru
OT Supporter
Aug 11, 2003
21,781
Loserville. Population: 1
Nah, they just have MPRs that a lot of seller's would prefer not dealing with. If the property is sound however (in a balanced market), there's really no reason not to. They're easy to complete offers with guaranteed money.
The MPRs are part of the misconception. A lot of people think that VA looks at a property with more scrutiny than another loan type, and if it's not perfect, then VA will have an issue with it.

All VA asks for is that the property is:
- Safe
- Sound
- Sanitary

If a listing meets those, then they shouldn't have a problem with VA. If they DON'T meet those...then get that shit fixed before you list it. What kind of disgusting dump are you trying to sell?

People also think that VA = 100% loan = unqualified buyer. Not the case as well. VA doesn't require a down-payment, but veterans average 10% down. They have high average credit scores, high average loan sizes, and low average default rates. Some agents say "well yeah but VA appraisers are bad and in my 733 years of selling real estate, I've NEVER had a property appraise low except for VA loans!!!" Which isn't a good argument because the same appraisers that do VA appraisals also do conventional, FHA, USDA, etc.

VA also allows the highest qualifying debt-to-income ratio, and they honestly will bend over backwards trying to help veterans get approved. If there ever is a squirly situation where you're unsure about something, you can call one of the VA loan centers, tell them what your issue is, and more often than not they will work with you to allow whatever exception you need.
 

Mejnoon

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2000
34,300
Omaha, NE
@rebs the key with lead generation in residential real estate is to pick one of the many proven methods, execute according to a plan and stick with it for long enough for it to work. It takes time and consistency.

Lead/referral services are generally offering low value leads that will take as much time and effort to convert as any lead you can generate through direct prospecting.
 
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kwhitelaw

OT Supporter
Sep 1, 2004
38,138
virginia
I will say that I have had issues with appraisal repairs with a VA loan that the appraiser admitted wouldn't have been an issue with conventional.. it wasn't something that couldn't be overcome fairly easily/cheaply but it still cost the seller a little more than had the offer been conv or possibly fha

And it's minuscule but VA requiring seller to pay for a termite inspection vs other types of financing, but again that's pennies on the dollar
 

Bugalu

OT Supporter
Nov 23, 2003
58,713
Nashville
The MPRs are part of the misconception. A lot of people think that VA looks at a property with more scrutiny than another loan type, and if it's not perfect, then VA will have an issue with it.

All VA asks for is that the property is:
- Safe
- Sound
- Sanitary

If a listing meets those, then they shouldn't have a problem with VA. If they DON'T meet those...then get that shit fixed before you list it. What kind of disgusting dump are you trying to sell?

People also think that VA = 100% loan = unqualified buyer. Not the case as well. VA doesn't require a down-payment, but veterans average 10% down. They have high average credit scores, high average loan sizes, and low average default rates. Some agents say "well yeah but VA appraisers are bad and in my 733 years of selling real estate, I've NEVER had a property appraise low except for VA loans!!!" Which isn't a good argument because the same appraisers that do VA appraisals also do conventional, FHA, USDA, etc.

VA also allows the highest qualifying debt-to-income ratio, and they honestly will bend over backwards trying to help veterans get approved. If there ever is a squirly situation where you're unsure about something, you can call one of the VA loan centers, tell them what your issue is, and more often than not they will work with you to allow whatever exception you need.
In this market, I’d never Rec taking a VA loan.


Ideally it goes smooth but you never know what your gonna get with a VA Appraiser.

Conventional or Cash all day long
 

kwhitelaw

OT Supporter
Sep 1, 2004
38,138
virginia
I will say I don't miss 6-7 years ago and VA buyers asking for 4% in subsidy to help pay some debt off to qualify

but im a hypocrite cause on the buy side we'd pad the subsidy request and get washer/dryer at settlement lol
 

saabguy

Saab-free since 2013. Mortgage guru
OT Supporter
Aug 11, 2003
21,781
Loserville. Population: 1
I will say that I have had issues with appraisal repairs with a VA loan that the appraiser admitted wouldn't have been an issue with conventional.. it wasn't something that couldn't be overcome fairly easily/cheaply but it still cost the seller a little more than had the offer been conv or possibly fha

And it's minuscule but VA requiring seller to pay for a termite inspection vs other types of financing, but again that's pennies on the dollar
Seller doesn’t have to pay it.

Agents can pay. Take it out of that fat 6% commish.

What was the repair issue?
 

kwhitelaw

OT Supporter
Sep 1, 2004
38,138
virginia
Seller doesn’t have to pay it.

Agents can pay. Take it out of that fat 6% commish.

What was the repair issue?
of course seller doesn't have to pay
6% lol

one I can remember was a handrail missing but it was obvious it never had one (had "high" brick wall on one side, house foundation on other).. wasn't the end of the world other than the idiot appraiser not specifying from where to where he wanted to see a handrail, so after a railing was put in and a trip charge back to the house the appraiser said not good enough.. had appraiser just answered a phone call and explained it would have avoided a second trip charge and pushing settlement 2 days

and yes I know appraiser isn't supposed to talk to anyone except processor for the lender
 

kwhitelaw

OT Supporter
Sep 1, 2004
38,138
virginia
The same VA appraiser can be assigned to do it as a conventional though. They are not strictly VA.
yes but aren't guidelines different from VA to conventional? so wouldnt the appraiser come to the property with a different set of lenses on if conv
 
May 8, 2001
30,981
Colorado
The MPRs are part of the misconception. A lot of people think that VA looks at a property with more scrutiny than another loan type, and if it's not perfect, then VA will have an issue with it.

All VA asks for is that the property is:
- Safe
- Sound
- Sanitary

If a listing meets those, then they shouldn't have a problem with VA. If they DON'T meet those...then get that shit fixed before you list it. What kind of disgusting dump are you trying to sell?

People also think that VA = 100% loan = unqualified buyer. Not the case as well. VA doesn't require a down-payment, but veterans average 10% down. They have high average credit scores, high average loan sizes, and low average default rates. Some agents say "well yeah but VA appraisers are bad and in my 733 years of selling real estate, I've NEVER had a property appraise low except for VA loans!!!" Which isn't a good argument because the same appraisers that do VA appraisals also do conventional, FHA, USDA, etc.

VA also allows the highest qualifying debt-to-income ratio, and they honestly will bend over backwards trying to help veterans get approved. If there ever is a squirly situation where you're unsure about something, you can call one of the VA loan centers, tell them what your issue is, and more often than not they will work with you to allow whatever exception you need.
Well, it's not a misconception. because they are in fact requirements.

Generally they're great and there really are no major drawbacks. But in a market like this, that isn't always the case, appraisals and the escape clause could become a problem.
 
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Mejnoon

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2000
34,300
Omaha, NE
I will say that I have had issues with appraisal repairs with a VA loan that the appraiser admitted wouldn't have been an issue with conventional.. it wasn't something that couldn't be overcome fairly easily/cheaply but it still cost the seller a little more than had the offer been conv or possibly fha

And it's minuscule but VA requiring seller to pay for a termite inspection vs other types of financing, but again that's pennies on the dollar
I had an appraiser force a seller to paint the edge of his perimeter foundation all the way around the house because there was some overspray on it from when the siding above it was painted. His opinion was that the overspray was “cracking or peeling paint” which required correction under VA guidelines :rofl:
 
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saabguy

Saab-free since 2013. Mortgage guru
OT Supporter
Aug 11, 2003
21,781
Loserville. Population: 1
of course seller doesn't have to pay
6% lol

one I can remember was a handrail missing but it was obvious it never had one (had "high" brick wall on one side, house foundation on other).. wasn't the end of the world other than the idiot appraiser not specifying from where to where he wanted to see a handrail, so after a railing was put in and a trip charge back to the house the appraiser said not good enough.. had appraiser just answered a phone call and explained it would have avoided a second trip charge and pushing settlement 2 days

and yes I know appraiser isn't supposed to talk to anyone except processor for the lender
Appraisers are allowed to talk to agents. He shouldn’t have avoided you. I’m not saying he didn’t tell you what he did about the railing. But the first house I bought had a stairwell to the basement and needed to have a railing installed because it was code/safety hazard. It was a conventional loan. Sounds like a dumbass appraiser. Of which there are a’plenty.
 
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kwhitelaw

OT Supporter
Sep 1, 2004
38,138
virginia
Appraisers are allowed to talk to agents. He shouldn’t have avoided you. I’m not saying he didn’t tell you what he did about the railing. But the first house I bought had a stairwell to the basement and needed to have a railing installed because it was code/safety hazard. It was a conventional loan. Sounds like a dumbass appraiser. Of which there are a’plenty.
it was years ago and I guess he coulda been an idiot but even the lender said the appraiser isn't "supposed" to talk to anyone that stands to gain anything from the transaction (either agent, loan officer, buyer/seller etc but the processor gets paid regardless if the deal closed so that was his point of contact)

in that deal, we had an 'elaborate' railing installed (raw 2x4 that was obviously gonna be taken back down but sufficed the requirement), we just didn't have the 'railing' extended up like 12" more inches at the start, so instead the satisfactory end result poked up all stupid like. stupid but we got it done and moved on

found a pic off the inspection report lol. needed to add a railing up to connect to the wood railing at the top left, which we did, the appraiser just made us extend it up and beyond the horizontal railing for the 'patio'. looked so stupid and looking back, was more of a hazard as it just poked up, wasn't like code now where it needs to tie back in so your shirt/jacket doesn't get caught

 
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saabguy

Saab-free since 2013. Mortgage guru
OT Supporter
Aug 11, 2003
21,781
Loserville. Population: 1
it was years ago and I guess he coulda been an idiot but even the lender said the appraiser isn't "supposed" to talk to anyone that stands to gain anything from the transaction (either agent, loan officer, buyer/seller etc but the processor gets paid regardless if the deal closed so that was his point of contact)

in that deal, we had an 'elaborate' railing installed (raw 2x4 that was obviously gonna be taken back down but sufficed the requirement), we just didn't have the 'railing' extended up like 12" more inches at the start, so instead the satisfactory end result poked up all stupid like. stupid but we got it done and moved on

found a pic off the inspection report lol. needed to add a railing up to connect to the wood railing at the top left, which we did, the appraiser just made us extend it up and beyond the horizontal railing for the 'patio'. looked so stupid and looking back, was more of a hazard as it just poked up, wasn't like code now where it needs to tie back in so your shirt/jacket doesn't get caught


I’ve had properties before where they tore off a deck because it needed to be replaced. But there is still a door leading out to the deck.

**SAFETY HAZARD**

So they just nailed a 2x4 diagonal across the doorway :rofl:

“That good boss?”
- fuckin’ send it
 

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