Discussion in 'On Topic' started by xinster, Aug 11, 2006.
for hunting or self defense? Do you guys get the hydrashoks or do you just cheap out
Well I dont really hunt and havent bought self defense ammo yet.
But I usually use cheapo for target practice, and figure thatll do until I get some better ammunition
Very. With handguns the way you stop the person is by the size of hole you put in them. A good bullet can put a hole 2x as big in someone as a fmj or one that fails to expand. Hydroshocks are an old outdated design, I don't use them. Look more toward gold dots, golden sabers, ranger t, and federal hst.
I'd also recommend you read this http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm
By bullets do you mean projectiles or the whole cartridge?
Either way, I like to use Cor-Bon +P's for carry. They are not super-special, new-age projectiles but they are pushing a good bit faster than most other stuff. They do have other bullets like the Pow-R-ball and such that are supposed to be good. Do some research and figure out what you think is effective, everyone has their own opinion on the subject.
As far as just plain ammunition, def do not use target stuff for defence. It is generally slower, less powerful, lighter bullets, and often (except in the case of target-shooting stuff) less consistent. If you need to use it for defence, you want something that will leave a large hole, usually hollow-point, and it needs to be of decent quality for consistency and power.
I forgot to add that I only have one handgun right now. Its a CZ52, and there arent really any self defense rounds. Only one Ive seen is from Magsafe, and I dont really think theyre much better than fmj.
And as for my 870 express and a couple larger caliber rifles, I think theyre powerful enough to deliver the damage needed
But if I had a 9mm or a .40 or some other popular handgun, I would definately by self defense ammunition for it and keep a couple magazines loaded with it at all times.
Am thinking about getting a box or two of self defense .223 for my new AR
Hydrashocks suck. Speer Gold Dots FTW.
And you'll be hard pressed to drop a person with 1 round from a 9mm FMJ bullet unless it's a direct shot to the central nervous system. The probability of stopping a bad guy is far higher with JHP's.
As far as hunting goes, I don't hunt, it's stupid, pointless, and ignorant IMO - but, if you are going to hunt, then you should use the best and highest quality rounds available to ensure that the animal is dropped quickly and without hesitation to ensure that it doesn't have to suffer.
Definately want some type of self defense round. I use black hills JHP .45 +p 230gr. It's the only .45 +p I could find locally.
edit: I would use a ranger SXT +p if I could find them.
Ranger T > SXT
Local guy, gotten stuff from him a few times, highly recommend it.
I always get them mixed up. Whichever is the new one. I thought they had em in +P though
there they are.
Oops thought I linked to the +P rounds, anyway yup nice guy, fast shipping, posts on glocktalk and THR I think.
Mindset it primary.
Shot placement is secondary.
Cartridge selection is tertiary.
If you have the right mindset, you are far, far, far more likely to avoid or deescalate a situation before firearms are needed on your part. Unassing the area is not a pussy move. It's smart.
If you make properly placed shots, it matters LESS what you use. I say LESS because you never know what kind of barrier, clothing, or body parts through which you might have to shoot. The round you're firing may or may not have the velocity or the bullet construction to penetrate said obstacles.
The proper defense load can take a marginal shot and turn it into a good hit by expanding the permanent wound cavity into the vital areas. A good defense load will not shed its jacket and disintegrate. A good defense load will penetrate enough clothing and body parts to be effective in the winter and when your assailant puts his arms up in front of his body, as one would when attacking someone else with hands, objects, or firearms.
I carry Winchester Ranger T in the RA9T loading.
If I had the money to swap out all my ammo and put away a case of it, I'd switch to Cor-Bon DPX in a heartbeat.
One of the reasons the old 9mm vs 45 debate started was that military are not allowed to use hollowpoint ammo. They use ball ammo that over penetrates and has no expansion. In that situation, it's all about the biggest caliber to make the biggest hole.
With civilian ammo, the different designs of hollowpoint ammo brings the 9mm and the 45 alot closer with +P+ loadings, expanding jackets, etc. and an average 12-13 inches of penetration while causing more internal damage. I carry Corbon DPX in both a 45 and a 9. No way I would cheap out with what is intended to save my life.
I carry 147 gr gold dots in my Sig and my USP. My revolver isn't rated for +P so I just use .38 Winchester soft points. I always keep a couple thousand rounds of target ammo around just in case the zombies come, though .
As for that CZ-52 they're a little differant. They shoot at a higher velocity than most handguns so they can cause more damage despite the smaller bullet and the FMJ. I wouldn't want it for your typical scenario where I'd expect to need my CCW, though. Overpenetration is a bitch. It'd be nice to have if I needed to penetrate body armor or something like that but if I just wanted to shoot someone that had broken into my house or who was trying to carjack me then it could prove to be a liability.
For defense ammo, just stick with whatever premium self defense ammo you can find, that feeds reliably in your pistol. For me it's Speer Gold Dots, but you can't go wrong with Ranger T, HST, Silvertip....
Whats your dad do? They look as though they should be an excellent performer as well, so I'm wondering about sample size.
Free ammo is always good, the HST's may not perform as well as Ranger's but I'de have no qualms about using them.
http://www.btfh.net/shoot/bullet-test-2.html im gonna use the hst +P
All that test covers is expansion, not a word about penetration. The data on its own is fairly worthles to me.
penetration is almost always the same on quality loads. expansion is what you are looking for
ammo selection is pretty important when dealing with low-powered firearms such as handguns. It pays to do your homework on what works and what is just hype.
I carry either a snubnose .38 loaded with Federal Nyclad 158gr+P SWC-HP's or my Glock 26 loaded with 147gr gold-dots.
both rounds are proven performers and i feel very confident in having it.
That HST looks pretty damn sweet.
That image really shows that all common handgun calibers are roughly the same. However when we talk ballistics we're nit picking and there is a significant difference in penetration between rounds of the same weight, and especially different weights. There's only so much energy in a round and if it expands wider its not going to penetrate as deeply. Its enough of a difference that I would rather not use HST in 9mm over ranger t given that I think sufficient penetration is far more important than expansion.
that link shows there is approx (cant fully generalize) .5-1" of penetration difference. Hardly a deal breaker when you are most likely going to be shooting from the front. I'll take expansion over that. If not, why are you even using hollow points? Use FMJ for max penetration.
Since crushed tissue damage is completely superficial and expansion and penetration between calibers are within a mere 15% of each other, reliability is what you're after so I'd pick something of quality to carry