Discussion in 'OT Driven' started by alltracman78, Sep 27, 2007.
And came across this.
It ought to fire some of you up.
so basically GM shoud drop all UAW workers and hire mexicans
I'm by no means a union supporter, but there's a lot of bullshit in that list, particularly towards the end where it deviates from fact and enters speculation.
It also talks very little about management decision that also contributed to the mess.
Even if every single Cimarron, Catera, Aztek, and Uplander had been built by low paid workers who never made a single "monday" car, they'd still suck balls when compared to the competition.
You can't lay shitty design and poor market assesment at the feet of the union.
Catera was not that shitty of a car. At least the concept of it.
The car was unattractive and it didn't have the interior quality/design, handling, or power to meet or exceed it's targeted competitors standards.
Every one could have been a flawless jewel from the factory that ran like new for 200,000 miles and it still wouldn't have been as good as it's competition.
You can blame the UAW for a lot of shit, but inferior design isn't one of them.
Not trying to argue here. But on the flip side of your argument, if GM didn't have to deal with the UAW, and actually turned a profit, maybe they would have been able to sink that profit into their designs, thereby eliminating the shitty designs?? Just a thought.
It worked for VW.
...wait, no it didn't...Mk4 cars had notoriously unpredicable build quality...ah well.
The biggest problem GM faces is that its management lives in Detroit. It's a little isolated border town with a lot of jobs and no other attraction whatsoever.
(I used to live there.)
They need to GTFO of Bumblefuck USA and set up shop somewhere where a significant portion of the driving population lives. Central Coast CA, perhaps, or the NY Tri-state area.
(On a side note, I look forward to VWoA's new corporate HQ being literally down the street from my office in Herndon, VA. Maybe they can fix my suspension?)
The people who skinned and approved the Aztek would have been paid the same amount of money even if the UAW had been broken in the 70's.
I agree with your statement, and I agree that a lot of the decisions being made at the RenCen are driven by the need to keep costs down, but that only goes so far.
Dodge has the same labor problems GM does, but their mini-van is generally considered superior to the GM offerings. Has been for years.
Since Dodge designed and continued to build a somewhat superior vehicle under nearly identical circumstances, the Chevy Uplander is a management failing.
None of that really matters, since it would be pointless to try and assign the exact percentage of blame between the UAW and management.
I just wanted to point out that the blog linked to was both partially incorrect and unfair.
The problems in Detroit will not be fixed simply by breaking the UAW.
Although that is a good idea (imo), you would also need to replace the idiots making decisions as well in order to really see a change.
This is the wrong forum to be entering this discussion, but I will share a quick thought.
I have owned:
2002 Golf MKiV 0 kms to 288,000 kms. No issues to make me think the above statement is true. Sold for larger family vehicle. I complained about the vehicle using 1.5L of oil in 5000 kms and they reringed the damn engine and put new bearings in it for me. That was a champ move on VWs part. Our brand new Subaru uses 1.5L every 6000 - 7000 kms and they say that is normal. Too bad for me.
2003 Jetta MKiV 118,000 kms to 297,000 kms. Currently have this vehicle. No issues to make me think your above statement is true.
I bought these vehicles because:
2001 Golf MKiV 0 kms to 185,000 kms. Two small trim issues and one MAF replaced under warranty even after the warranty expired.
2000 Golf MKiV 25,000 kms to 296,000 kms. No issues.
2002 Jetta MKiV forget to around 150,000 kms. Rad fan plastic broke.
Dex... I said this before in the other forum where you just won't shut up and poke your pointy head in (btw, how do you get a square head in that round baseball cap of yours?) everything you don't belong in....
... eat a dick a die.
How does it feel to be the kid that is picked last.... at everything in life?
Congratulations, you got lucky and you probably maintained your cars well. A great many people suffered repeated mechanical and electrical failures (especially the latter) in the cars you listed.
It feels fine, thanks for asking. Getting picked last means I don't have to give a fuck what people like you think.