SRS I'm worried about drinking too much, I drink to get drunk. [anon thread]

i killed tupac

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Mar 19, 2005
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ANONYMOUS POST

I come from a long line of alcoholics. My grandfather was an alcoholic who quit drinking in 1958, and my Dad is an alcoholic who quit drinking in the late 1980's.

My Mom always told me not to drink because of this

Nevertheless, I became a drinker. I turned 21 in 2006, and I was a drinker by then -- I loved to go out and drink as much as I could no matter what the situation.

Today I'm 26. I drink 2 or 3 times per week. The problem is that when I drink, I try to get as drunk as possible. It's tough for me to know when to stop, and I often get drunker than my friends. I started dating a girl who didn't like my drinking -- this didn't matter to me, I just wanted to get drunk. Everything seemed to continue a usual -- my parents turned a blind eye, I continued to get drunk.

Fast forward a few years, and everything is the same -- I keep drinking, everyone looks at me like I'm a drunk.

I am now engaged. I got a great job that pays me more money than I've made in the past. However, my drinking is out of control. Today, I left work at 1pm to meet my friend for lunch. Today is St. Patrick's Day. I drank at lunch and got drunk enough to where I couldn't go back to work. I then told my manager I couldn't come back and I was going to take a half vacation day. I'm worried now about my boss coming back at me and me losing my job. I'm also worried about my fiance telling me I stink and refusing to let me sleep next to her.

I'm worried about drinking too much, I drink to get drunk.

I have no idea what the next step is. I'm considering just going to a couple AA meetings to see whats up. I'm not going to quit drinking -- but I just need some guidance.

/anonpost
 

more off

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May 29, 2004
71,317
well people in AA arent going to be able to tell you how to continue drinking successfully

but they will show you a way to get sober and stay sober for the rest of your life

you obviously dont want to lose your wife or your job.
but somehow drinking is still important enough that you still want to do it.
 

more off

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2004
71,317
honestly they'll probably tell you to try some more controlled drinking until you are finally ready and willing to quit for good and try a new way of life

a much better way of life i've found

sadly it takes some of us losing everything to get to that point
 

Coottie

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Jun 6, 2006
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Yeah gotta watch that lunchtime drunk...it can get outta hand. It's likely that your boss will only care if he/she knows you took sick time because you were drunk. Bosses don't like that....nor do they like unplanned absences because it makes them nervous (bosses are stupid).

There are a few moderation programs out there. AA is not one of them....it's a program of abstinence and seems to be the only long lasting treatment option. There are some people that debate the effectiveness of AA but I've personally seen it work in my life and the lives of others.

I can't personally tell you that anything below will work because I don't have experience with any of these things. I do however have 16+ years of continuous sobriety in AA so I know that program works. In all honesty tho, I'm starting to question some of the things I've learned in AA. It's not for everyone and it can be very difficult for some people to get a foothold.

Here's one book that might help:
51qFt0d8lSL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/AA-Way--Your-...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1300460498&sr=1-1

And I just got this one.....it seems to have some good ideas and has been clinically tested over 30 years but I don't have any personal experience with it. The link after the picture has many more control books.
51v8eDofFUL._SL500_AA266_PIkin3,BottomRight,-16,34_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=controlling+your+drinking&x=0&y=0


Here's a news article that might help:
http://www.newswise.com/articles/alcohol-moderation-movement-gains-strength

There's also something called the rational recovery method.
https://rational.org/index.php?id=1

And this book says that by taking a pill and continuing to drink, you can erase the cravings all together.
416BGrb85DL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Cure-Alcoholi...1550/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1300460370&sr=8-3



So here's the thing.....I don't have personal experience with anything other than AA. It's helped me tremendously in my life. However, I can no longer advocate AA as the only solution for every alcoholic because that ignores so many other options that may work for people.

I personally know people that went to AA and then returned to drinking and have lived a pretty good life since then. Now AA will tell you that these people were probably not real alcoholics and/or that it's only a matter of time before they resume their alcoholic drinking. I don't know if I believe either of those things anymore because there's so much more evidence out there.

Anyways, good luck and please keep us updated.
 

Coottie

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it's a slippery slope, what happens when you try to just moderate your drinking?
You're probably talking to the TS but I'll share my experience anyways. :)

I don't know....I never tried to moderate. It was all or nothing, primarily because people told me I had to stop drinking. Back in the early 90s, there was no internet and even when there was, I didn't have a computer. So I never heard about nor had the opportunity to try moderation. Everyone I knew was either drinking or not drinking. Everyone that talked to me about my drinking said I had to stop....I don't remember one single person talking to me about moderation.
 
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i killed tupac

i killed tupac

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Mar 19, 2005
36,546
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You're probably talking to the TS but I'll share my experience anyways. :)

I don't know....I never tried to moderate. It was all or nothing, primarily because people told me I had to stop drinking. Back in the early 90s, there was no internet and even when there was, I didn't have a computer. So I never heard about nor had the opportunity to try moderation. Everyone I knew was either drinking or not drinking. Everyone that talked to me about my drinking said I had to stop....I don't remember one single person talking to me about moderation.

are you going to start drinking?
 
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i killed tupac

i killed tupac

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Mar 19, 2005
36,546
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Very little. Got any suggestions?

I'm trying to think where I learned so much about it that is secular, a lot of it was buddhist stuff. I know that cognative therapy works on the same mechanism that addiction does, in the same way, and it is quite progessive, much as addiction is-and the habits never full go away. Kinda like a dirt path that turns into a freeway, even if the freeway stops being used, and gets over grown with weeds and dirt, its still there, and if you start walking down it again, it starts to become a freeway again, but faster this time. The dirt path/freeway metaphor was used to describe neural pathways that are literally "burned" by the use of chemicals that act on seretonin, ephinephrine or dopamine. It was fascinating. Listened to a lecture on it on NPR, you can probably download it.

A few times over the years, I've researched it ya know, just rethinking things. I think it's crazy not to. Right now I can honestly say i don't want to drink, even if i was somehow "guaranteed" freedom from addiction to it. It's really just not necessary, and again, too risky for me, and not enough benefit. :dunno:
 
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Coottie

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I'm trying to think where I learned so much about it that is secular, a lot of it was buddhist stuff.
I actually joined a Buddhist "church" this past year. I'm not a die hard, totally devoted buddhist but I seem to identify more with it than any other religion at this point.

I know that cognative therapy works on the same mechanism that addiction does, in the same way, and it is quite progessive, much as addiction is-and the habits never full go away. Kinda like a dirt path that turns into a freeway, even if the freeway stops being used, and gets over grown with weeds and dirt, its still there, and if you start walking down it again, it starts to become a freeway again, but faster this time. The dirt path/freeway metaphor was used to describe neural pathways that are literally "burned" by the use of chemicals that act on seretonin, ephinephrine or dopamine. It was fascinating. Listened to a lecture on it on NPR, you can probably download it.
Yeah I've heard a similar type statement about pickles. They say that once a cucumber has turned into a pickle, there is no way it can ever go back into being a cucumber.

The quite obvious things that is never discussed about that analogy are:
1) cucumbers are not alive when they're pickled....well one can debate their "life" but they're obviously not still growing because they're severed from the plant. The thing is....life changes things significantly.

2) They don't have consciousness so they can't choose one path over another.

A few times over the years, I've researched it ya know, just rethinking things. I think it's crazy not to.
Exactly. In fact, I'm starting to rething everything that I used to believe as "truth". I don't think we know everything there is to know about every subject. In fact, I've found that very often my ideas are actually valid....regardless of whether or not everyone agrees with my ideas. Their agreement sometimes makes it easier to accept my ideas as sound but it's not a requirement and breaking from the norm is often quite difficult.

Right now I can honestly say i don't want to drink, even if i was somehow "guaranteed" freedom from addiction to it. It's really just not necessary, and again, too risky for me, and not enough benefit. :dunno:
Yeah that's the thing keeping me from diving in....that I can't guarantee anything and I don't want to fuck up my life.

I'll be honest....16.5 years has been a long ass time to not drink and there are some things I miss about it.....mainly the effects produced by alcohol. However, I don't want to go back to the shit.

Also....I'm starting to realize there are a lot of people out thee that have done things differently than the methods prescribed in AA. Now I'm not here to judge AA as good or bad....it's helped me tremendously but what if there are other methods that are equally effective but don't require complete abstinence?

I don't know....on one hand it's quite scary to me to think about drinking again but on the other hand, it's not scary at all. In fact, it seems quite normal. I'm in a MUCH different place in life then when I sobered up.....like it was a different fucking life back then.
 
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i killed tupac

i killed tupac

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Mar 19, 2005
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I don't know anyone who's done it really. There was "Moderation Management"...but the founder of that is in prison from a DUI where she killed two people.

Buddhism prohibits alcohol.
 
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i killed tupac

i killed tupac

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2005
36,546
this toilet earth
oh,and I was gonna say i don't really think of it as time since my last use. I've been clean almost 12 years now, but for me it went like this:
-i cant stop using
-i've been stuggling for this many days clean
-i haven't used in "x" number of months
-a few years in, learning how to live
-it's been a number of years since I've drank/used
-I dont drink/use. Not addicted to anything, go to a few meetings a month to help others.
 

Coottie

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I don't know anyone who's done it really. There was "Moderation Management"...but the founder of that is in prison from a DUI where she killed two people.
Yep....that MM founder is kinda fucked right now but her experience in no way invalidates the MM theories. It simply points to the fact that alcoholism is not easily defined and that there is so much more to learn about it.
Buddhism prohibits alcohol.
I'm not sure I agree...but I'm new.

I was under the impression that Buddhism was against the abuse of alcohol, not it's use.

I've discussed this with a few Buddhists that have much more time and knowledge and there is some disagreement but it seems that the consensus is that Buddhism is not against the consumption of alcohol.....only it's abuse and that abuse is defined by everyone individually.
 
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i killed tupac

i killed tupac

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Mar 19, 2005
36,546
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Yep....that MM founder is kinda fucked right now but her experience in no way invalidates the MM theories. It simply points to the fact that alcoholism is not easily defined and that there is so much more to learn about it.

I'm not sure I agree...but I'm new.

I was under the impression that Buddhism was against the abuse of alcohol, not it's use.

I've discussed this with a few Buddhists that have much more time and knowledge and there is some disagreement but it seems that the consensus is that Buddhism is not against the consumption of alcohol.....only it's abuse and that abuse is defined by everyone individually.


The 5th precept specifically prohibits the use of any intoxicant in any form. Dalai Lama himself has spoken on it. I have seen here, too, in America, new age neohippies trying to make Buddhism something it isn't. There are only 5 precepts, and they dont change:

As the Buddha refrained from killing for the rest of his life, so shall I
As the Buddha refrained from stealing for the rest of his life, so shall I
As the Buddha refrained from lying for the rest of his life, so shall I
As the Buddha refrained from sexual misconduct for the rest of his life, so shall I
As the Buddha refrained from consuming intoxicants for the rest of his life, so shall I

In fact in Asian countries, you can specify and ask for "buddhist" versions of meals, which they will cook for you without cooking wine or alcohol, much as they modify dishes for vegetarians.

The Dalai Lama had this to say about alcohol: he said that when you consume some (alcohol/food/drugs), you may feel pleasure. If the true nature of the thing was pleasure, then the more of it you had, the more pleasure you will have, in equal measure. Anyone who has consumed as much as possible has learned for themselves the true nature of these things is not pleasure!
 
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i killed tupac

i killed tupac

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2005
36,546
this toilet earth
Here is some more info, as Bikhu Bodhi had to say:

A Discipline of Sobriety

by Bhikkhu Bodhi

Several months ago I went for a two-week retreat to a hermitage in the low country highly respected for the austere, meditative life of its monks. Each day a different group of dayakas (donors) comes to the monastery bringing almsfood, often from remote towns and villages. They arrive the previous evening, prepare an early breakfast which is sent up to the refectory, and then, in the forenoon, offer alms directly to the monks when they come down on alms round. After the other monks have collected their food and gone back up, one elder stays behind to give the Refuges and Precepts, preach a short sermon, and conduct the dedication of merit.

One day during my retreat I noticed some of the male dayakas behaving rather oddly near the abbot's quarters. I asked my friend, a German monk, about their strange behavior, and the explanation he gave me jolted my mind. "They were drunk," he told me. But that wasn't all. He continued: "The only thing unusual about yesterday's incident was that the men had gotten drunk early in the day. Usually they put on their best behavior until the formalities are done, then they break out the bottles."

This stark revelation aroused in me both indignation and sorrow. Indignation, at the idea that people who consider themselves Buddhists should flaunt the most basic precepts even in the sacred precincts of a monastery -- indeed one of the few in Sri Lanka where the flame of arduous striving still burns. Sorrow, because this was only the latest evidence I had seen of how deeply the disease of alcoholism has eaten into the entrails of this nation, whose Buddhist heritage goes back over two thousand years. But Sri Lanka is far from being the only Buddhist country to be engulfed by the spreading wave of alcohol consumption. The wave has already swept over far too much of the shrinking Buddhist world, with Thailand and Japan ranking especially high on the fatality list.

The reasons for this ominous trend vary widely. One is rising affluence, which for the rich makes of liquor (hi-grade imported) a visible symbol of newly acquired wealth and power. Another is a burgeoning middle class, which blindly imitates the social conventions of the West. Still another is poverty, which turns the bottle into an easy escape route from the grim face of everyday reality. But whatever the reason, it is more than our woes and worries that alcohol is dissolving. It is gnawing away at the delicate fabric of Buddhist values on every level -- personal, family, and social.

For his lay followers the Buddha has prescribed five precepts as the minimal moral observance: abstinence from killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, false speech, and the use of intoxicants. He did not lay down these precepts arbitrarily or out of compliance with ancient customs, but because he understood, with his omniscient knowledge, which lines of conduct lead to our welfare and happiness and which lead to harm and suffering. The fifth precept, it should be stressed, is not a pledge merely to abstain from intoxication or from excessive consumption of liquor. It calls for nothing short of total abstinence. By this rule the Buddha shows that he has understood well the subtle, pernicious nature of addiction. Alcoholism rarely claims its victims in a sudden swoop. Usually it sets in gradually, beginning perhaps with the social icebreaker, the drink among friends, or the cocktail after a hard day's work. But it does not stop there: slowly it sinks its talons into its victims' hearts until they are reduced to its helpless prey.

To dispel any doubt about his reasons for prescribing this precept, the Buddha has written the explanation into the rule itself: one is to refrain from the use of intoxicating drinks and drugs because they are the cause of heedlessness (pamada). Heedlessness means moral recklessness, disregard for the bounds between right and wrong. It is the loss of heedfulness (appamada), moral scrupulousness based on a keen perception of the dangers in unwholesome states. Heedfulness is the keynote of the Buddhist path, "the way to the Deathless," running through all three stages of the path: morality, concentration, and wisdom. To indulge in intoxicating drinks is to risk falling away from each stage. The use of alcohol blunts the sense of shame and moral dread and thus leads almost inevitably to a breach of the other precepts. One addicted to liquor will have little hesitation to lie or steal, will lose all sense of sexual decency, and may easily be provoked even to murder. Hard statistics clearly confirm the close connection between the use of alcohol and violent crime, not to speak of traffic accidents, occupational hazards, and disharmony within the home. Alcoholism is indeed a most costly burden on the whole society.

When the use of intoxicants eats away at even the most basic moral scruples, little need be said about its corrosive influence on the two higher stages of the path. A mind besotted by drink will lack the alertness required for meditative training and certainly won't be able to make the fine distinctions between good and bad mental qualities needed to develop wisdom. The Buddhist path in its entirety is a discipline of sobriety, a discipline which demands the courage and honesty to take a long, hard, utterly sober look at the sobering truths about existence. Such courage and honesty will hardly be possible for one who must escape from truth into the glittering but fragile fantasyland opened up by drink and drugs.

It may well be that a mature, reasonably well-adjusted person can enjoy a few drinks with friends without turning into a drunkard or a murderous fiend. But there is another factor to consider: namely, that this life is not the only life we lead. Our stream of consciousness does not terminate with death but continues on in other forms, and the form it takes is determined by our habits, propensities, and actions in this present life. The possibilities of rebirth are boundless, yet the road to the lower realms is wide and smooth, the road upwards steep and narrow. If we were ordered to walk along a narrow ledge overlooking a sharp precipice, we certainly would not want to put ourselves at risk by first enjoying a few drinks. We would be too keenly aware that nothing less than our life is at stake. If we only had eyes to see, we would realize that this is a perfect metaphor for the human condition, as the Buddha himself, the One with Vision, confirms (see SN 56:42). As human beings we walk along a narrow ledge, and if our moral sense is dulled we can easily topple over the edge, down to the plane of misery, from which it is extremely difficult to re-emerge.

But it is not for our own sakes alone, nor even for the wider benefit of our family and friends, that we should heed the Buddha's injunction to abstain from intoxicants. To do so is also part of our personal responsibility for preserving the Buddha's Sasana. The Teaching can survive only as long as its followers uphold it, and in the present day one of the most insidious corruptions eating away at the entrails of Buddhism is the extensive spread of the drinking habit among those same followers. If we truly want the Dhamma to endure long, to keep the path to deliverance open for all the world, then we must remain heedful. If the current trend continues and more and more Buddhists succumb to the lure of intoxicating drinks, we can be sure that the Teaching will perish in all but name. At this very moment of history when its message has become most urgent, the sacred Dhamma of the Buddha will be irreparably lost, drowned out by the clinking of glasses and our rounds of merry toasts.

Buddhist Publication Society Newsletter cover essay #36 (2nd mailing, 1997)
Copyright © 1997 Buddhist Publication Society
For free distribution only
 

Coottie

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Thanks!

Ever hear of Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche?

He was apparently a very interesting guy because he was very knowledgeable of Buddhism but was also a party animal.
Two former students of Trungpa, John Steinbeck IV and his wife, wrote a sharply critical memoir of their lives with him in which they claim that, in addition to alcohol, Trungpa used $40,000 a year worth of cocaine, and used Seconal to come down from the cocaine. The cocaine use, say the Steinbecks, was kept secret from the wider Vajradhatu community.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chögyam_Trungpa


Honestly....I'm not sure I even believe all about Buddhism tho because there's just some things that are really quite goofy.
 

Coottie

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I've had a fifth of Jack Daniels and a fifth of Rum sitting in my refrigerator since last Saturday night. I also have a 12 pack of Budweiser there.

I haven't drank any of it because while I was convinced I wanted to drink last week....once I bought all that stuff, I didn't want to. Now I don't really know if I will or not.

My friends are supportive but also don't want to see me crash and burn. Hell neither do I but I just don't know if there are other ways to live in the world with alcohol besides total and complete abstinence. I'm seriously wondering if there are other ways....like I originally quoted in this thread.
 

Coottie

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I read that whole thing about the Buddhists that you posted IKT and I've got to say, that's some pretty gloom and doom shit right there. I've heard similar things from Christianity and honestly, it just turns me off.

Everyone acts like the Buddha was infallible. I'm not sure he was. He was one who logically understood many things but many people have taken his teachings and expanded them in ways he never had dreamed of.

Perhaps the same will be said of alcohol consumption.
 

{hydro}

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I've had a fifth of Jack Daniels and a fifth of Rum sitting in my refrigerator since last Saturday night. I also have a 12 pack of Budweiser there.

I haven't drank any of it because while I was convinced I wanted to drink last week....once I bought all that stuff, I didn't want to. Now I don't really know if I will or not.

My friends are supportive but also don't want to see me crash and burn. Hell neither do I but I just don't know if there are other ways to live in the world with alcohol besides total and complete abstinence. I'm seriously wondering if there are other ways....like I originally quoted in this thread.
You've obviously had more experience in sobriety than me but reading the first part of this post made me so nervous.

This is obviously just my opinion but the first part of your post is like saying I have a gun in my mouth and I'm just waiting to pull the trigger.

For and alcoholic/addict like myself, the only way for me to live a happy life is completely sober. I've proved it to myself time and time again that I can moderate and have fun for a little while but I always end up in a waaay shittier place than before and it happens 10x faster each time.

I don't know you or know anything about your past but why do you even want to take the risk?
 

Coottie

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You've obviously had more experience in sobriety than me but reading the first part of this post made me so nervous.

This is obviously just my opinion but the first part of your post is like saying I have a gun in my mouth and I'm just waiting to pull the trigger.
Yeah I was a bit worried about implying that but it's not what I meant. I simply wanted to highlight the fact that the booze is there and I'm not having a difficult time staying away from it.

For and alcoholic/addict like myself, the only way for me to live a happy life is completely sober. I've proved it to myself time and time again that I can moderate and have fun for a little while but I always end up in a waaay shittier place than before and it happens 10x faster each time.
Yeah see I've never really tried to moderate. It was either all or nothing....I was either drinking or sober. I'm in a much different place in my life and think differently than I did and I'm wondering if I could drink normally now. I don't know and there aren't many good stories about people that have successfully done it.....but they are out there.


I don't know you or know anything about your past but why do you even want to take the risk?
Well there are a LOT of reasons. Some of the higher reasons are:
1) I don't think we've learned everything about alcohol.
2) I don't know that I can't moderate....perhaps I can.
3) I want to have fun drinking....like parties and such.
4) I'm bored at times and it sounds like something fun to do.

However, one of the main reasons - I challenge all things in my life and figure out what I truly believe. I've done this with many different things and learned so much more about myself by doing this. Some things, I've reinforced my beliefs but others, I've completely changed my beliefs. Alcohol and alcoholism may be my next "project"....but holy shit....the consequences might be disastrous.

The reasons are many, complex and not easily addressed. Any one of them can be isolated and someone can easily say, "SEE THERE....you're thinking alcoholically" but I'm not so sure.

Look at my first post....there are so many more options to AA now and I'm wondering if some of those might work for me if things get really bad. We as a society have learned so much more about life since AA was founded.....we have many more scientific tools, studies, and help available. I'm honestly not sure if AA is the only way anymore.

I don't know tho.....I'm scared to try. Seriously.....like I don't want to fuck up my life and I really don't want to have to tell all my friends and family that I started drinking again and explain everything.

I don't know....it's all quite complicated and I bounce back and forth. I'm just honestly not sure I believe the things I used to accept as truth from AA and I'm wondering if there's more to the story.

As I've been questioning, I find many stories on both sides. However there are a lot more stories of people that have fucked up their life by going back to drinking.
 

Coottie

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Also to the treadstarter....I didn't really mean to take over your thread. I apologize for that but the reason I keep posting is because I'm hoping this discussion is helpful to you.....if I'm wrong, please feel free to say that and I'll be happy to delete my previous posts.
 

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