Money buys happiness up until $500k

rcm

Bully Troll Crew
OT Supporter
Dec 30, 2004
69,681
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-07/money-does-buy-happiness-at-least-up-to-500-000


Money really does buy happiness, and the correlation extends well beyond the $75,000-a-year salary threshold that had been seen as the upper limit for making an impact, according to a team of scientists including the Nobel Prize-winning psychologist who introduced the idea of a happiness plateau more than a decade ago.

Contentedness does increase steadily in line with incomes and even accelerates as pay rises beyond $100,000 a year — as long as the person enjoys a certain baseline level of happiness to begin with. That’s according to the authors’ study of 33,391 people living in the US, published March 1 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences journal. They say the effect can be observed in salaries up to $500,000, though they lack conclusive data beyond that level.

The results contradict a famous 2010 paper by the psychologist Daniel Kahneman and economist Angus Deaton, which reported that happiness goes up with income until the relationship starts to “flatten” at between $60,000 and $90,000 a year.

Now Kahneman has re-analyzed his work in collaboration with Harvard University psychology doctoral student and former software product manager Matthew Killingsworth, who found no happiness plateau at all in a 2021 study researching the same topic.



Their new paper, which they describe as an “adversarial collaboration,” did find a plateau, but only among the unhappiest 20% of people, and only then when they start earning over $100,000. But even members of this unhappy group became happier as their income increased up to six figures. It’s only at this point where for the happiness effect of more money stops working and “the miseries that remain are not alleviated by high income.”

“For very poor people, money clearly helps a lot,” Killingsworth told New Scientist. “But if you have a decent income and you’re still miserable, the source of your misery probably isn’t something money can fix.”


For all other Americans outside of this group, more money means more happiness, at least to some extent. And for the happiest 30% of the population, the rate that happiness increases even accelerates as incomes go beyond $100,000.

That said, the researchers found that the overall emotional effect of more money on a person is small compared with other circumstances, even something as simple as two days off at the end of a week.


“An approximately four-fold difference in income is about equal to the effect of a weekend,” it said.

The people surveyed were employed adults between 18 and 65 living in the US, with a median age of 33 and median household income of $85,000 a year. The participants were surveyed about their happiness several times a day using an app developed by Killingsworth.

Although the survey included participants with incomes above $500,000, the researchers said it was impossible to say definitely that the effect was present for people earning more than this.

“The trend rises steadily up through the top income group [$500,000] in my data, but how much farther it extends is an open question," he said in an email to Bloomberg News. “I am engaged in some work to solve this, but it's not done just yet.”
 

Kafka

PaulGiamattiFan420
OT Supporter
Feb 16, 2007
53,615
America
That 75k thing was definitely outdated. The cost of necessaries has risen exponentially in the last few decades (housing, health insurance) while the cost of “luxury goods” like electronics continues coming down every year. Can’t be happy if your health is tied to your employment imo. If we had universal healthcare, affordable housing, and affordable higher education I guarantee you we would move closer to that 75k than 500k.
 

the_antsy_honda

This is the story of a little ship...
Dec 17, 2001
78,484
California
I think the essence of the article is that if you make enough money to live comfortably, additional money has diminishing returns on happiness compared to other things, like shorter work weeks, more time with family, etc.

Of course money enables those two things to happen so...once you have enough.
 

Twinsen

Resident Negro
OT Supporter
Mar 12, 2006
71,393
Memphis, TN
I think the essence of the article is that if you make enough money to live comfortably, additional money has diminishing returns on happiness compared to other things, like shorter work weeks, more time with family, etc.

Of course money enables those two things to happen so...once you have enough.
This.
 

aloe

OT Supporter
Aug 26, 2002
145,036
Dallas, Tejas
I’d be a lot happier at $500k/yr compared to say $100k-$200k/yr. That extra amount of security my gives as a tool is nice.

The goal would be to not let one’s self fall into the trap of lifestyle creep
 

stevezissou

OT Supporter
Jul 15, 2009
42,591
US
Money doesn't buy happiness.

It cures sadness.

Rich = always buying the latest item, toy, trinket, car, clothes etc etc
Wealthy = Funded contentment



"In The Geometry of Wealth,behavioral finance expert Brian Portnoy delivers an inspired answer based on the idea that wealth, truly defined, is funded contentment. It is the ability to underwrite a meaningful life. This stands in stark contrast to angling to become rich, which is usually an unsatisfying treadmill."
 
TS
TS
rcm

rcm

Bully Troll Crew
OT Supporter
Dec 30, 2004
69,681
Money doesn't buy happiness.

It cures sadness.

Rich = always buying the latest item, toy, trinket, car, clothes etc etc
Wealthy = Funded contentment



"In The Geometry of Wealth,behavioral finance expert Brian Portnoy delivers an inspired answer based on the idea that wealth, truly defined, is funded contentment. It is the ability to underwrite a meaningful life. This stands in stark contrast to angling to become rich, which is usually an unsatisfying treadmill."

Love his pizza reviews
 

smell my finger

strive nonetheless towards beauty and truth,
Aug 8, 2001
93,980
N NJ
it says they don't have data over $500k enough to draw any conclusions, not that it stops at that point
 

sans_pants

I don't want any damn vegetables
OT Supporter
May 2, 2002
130,363
we make being poor/middle class in this country EXTREMELY stressful

this was always stupid
 
  • Like
Reactions: TenSteel

the_antsy_honda

This is the story of a little ship...
Dec 17, 2001
78,484
California
:werd: I wish I had more time/flexibility to travel with the Mrs.

that's what I'm aiming for now.
We can only afford to have one decent vacation a year, well I guess I mean we are only willing to shell out for one decent vacation a year, but we have pretty modest incomes.

Then again I had to pay $2500 to fix my leaking roof unexpectedly, but I at least was in the position to pay it without really worrying about it (just whining). The fact that so many people would be devastated by that amount is depressing.

Oh and the whole thing about being a homeowner to begin with.
 

silver60

OT Supporter
May 4, 2010
9,997
Dallas Tx
Money is kinda useless if you don't have time to enjoy it

Your money should be making you money so that you are not working and therefore can enjoy life.

aka putting money into passive income investments immedately and getting the hell out of the "retirement" account strategy where you have to wait until 59.5 years old to enjoy life
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dusty Busterson

silver60

OT Supporter
May 4, 2010
9,997
Dallas Tx
I’d be a lot happier at $500k/yr compared to say $100k-$200k/yr. That extra amount of security my gives as a tool is nice.

The goal would be to not let one’s self fall into the trap of lifestyle creep

We're in that above $500k category and all that does is get you into evicting shit head tenants LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL but for real we're selling that place and moving into fully passive income investments.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

About Us

  • Please do not post anything that violates any Local, State, Federal or International Laws. Your privacy is protected. You have the right to be forgotten. Site funded by advertising, link monetization and member support.
OT v15.14.0 Copyright © 2000-2023 Offtopic.com
Served by fx.offtopic.com

Online statistics

Members online
256
Guests online
75
Total visitors
331

Forum statistics

Threads
80,499
Messages
7,850,847
Members
87,110
Latest member
nem12