Discussion in 'On Topic' started by P07r0457, Apr 17, 2008.
showed a target and divided it up into slices and explained possible causes for shot placement.
If someone does post it, don't go by it. Have a competent instructor show you what you're doing wrong. Self diagnosis doesn't work.
Was it this one? This only applies if you are shooting right handed.
It doesn't cost anything to try it, and if it helps, then good.
Knowing what is causing your shot to land in particular area of a target and knowing how to hit center is a huge difference.
Unless you are a blithering idiot (i'm not calling you a blithering idiot), most of those things on the chart are pretty easy to figure out. I'm not saying that using that chart will make you an expert shooter, but if you're consistently hitting the part (for example) that says "jerking or slapping trigger" it doesn't take a genius to figure that you should try a smoother trigger pull. If you do, and you're shooting better, then the chart has served its purpose.
The chart is just a tool that you can use for a little more insight into your shooting. It seems it also has the ability to upset people.
How is that chart going to help someone who has excellent trigger squeeze but is simply over or under gripping their gun?
They are going to go by that chart and "fix" their good trigger squeeze into some weird incorrect squeeze when all they had to do was be told by an instructor that they were over/undergripping their gun.
Because if their "weird, incorrect" squeeze gets them where they need to be, then by definition, it's not incorrect.
If all other mechanics are correct grip pressure has little to do with shot placement. Grip pressure has more to do with how the gun behaves in recoil. For example over gripping the gun will cause the sights to dip down below the target after recoil. Griping too loose will cause the sight to perform a little clover leaf movement instead of making a short clean hop up and down. Being able to see what the sights do in recoil is an learned technique. Most people are not to that point yet. You you get the oppertunity to shoot a pistol with a red dot sight you get a pretty good idea of grip pressure and what sights do in recoil.
So you rather have someone who has trouble with their shot due to their posture and grip, fix their correct trigger squeeze to accomodate their incorrect posture and grip???
I said it's a tool to use to help you. If it gives you an idea of what's going on then it's served its purpose. I have a hard time believing that if you have an incorrect grip, and an incorrect squeeze that you will be on target. Nonetheless, if someone likes a particular grip and trigger squeeze and they can shoot well with it, then who is anyone to tell them it's wrong.
there is more to that chart than just trigger pull
I'm not talking about too much gripping pressure or too little when I say over grip or under grip. Let me see how I can word that better.
Assuming you are right handed; take your normal grip then rotate the grip of the gun in your hand to the left, you have overgripped your gun. Rotate the grip of the gun in your hand to the right, you have undergripped your gun.
The fact the OP wants to figure out how to shoot better is a step in the right direction. There are many ways to do this but at least he took the first step. We all have our opinion of what is the best direction to go (instructor, reading/research, practice, etc.) To be good you have to go all these routes but who to get instruction from, who to read, and what and how to practice are the keys.
There is noting wrong with the chart. It might not be 100% correct but it is a starting point and gets people to study what might be a problem.
Understand that everyone is different. For example the focal point of my eyes are different than everyone elses. I shoot most guns low and I wish I had a $1 for everyone who told me I was yanking the trigger when I was starting out. Turns out my eyes are just different and I need adjustable sights. Once I did that my shooting went to the next level and beyond.
I never said there wasn't. I was giving one specific example, as someone who is gripping too much will have tendency to shoot left and if that person consults that chart and tries to fix the problem without professional help who knows what kind of frustration he'll go through before he can shoot straight.
This is true, but the point that has been made by a few people already is that this chart is just one tool available to the guy. Perhaps what he is doing wrong is on the chart, and he'll use the chart and fix what he's doing wrong and then he'll be fine. If so, good. Maybe he'll use the chart and it won't help at all. If that's the case, then he hasn't lost anything and he can go get an expert's opinion. Nobody is saying "don't get help from an expert."
jeez guys, no need to fight about it. My groupings are pretty good, but now I'm trying to improve my accuracy. I have no probs hitting center-mass on man-size targets, but I wanna be able to improve on that and take out cans and smaller objects at longer distances... The challenge is what I find enjoyable.
I'm a lefty, and noticed that i'm hitting a little low and to the right. I can compensate for this by aiming high/left but I didn't want to do that... I want to see if I can fix my stance. I'm fairly certain it's not my trigger pull. I do have a death-grip on the gun, so I'm going to try loosening that up a smidge as that is one of the hinted probs on that chart.
try a looser grip with the gun hand and a firm grip with the support hand. Also the chart is going to be reverse for a lefty.
It might be a sight alignment issue too. Shoot the gun off a rest to see if your still off. If so adjust the sights.
Two keys to accurate shooting is a 6 o'clock hold where the bullet impacts above the front sight. Like dotting the i. This way the front sight does not obscure the taget. The second and most important key is seeing the sights lift aka calling your shot. You want to physically see your sights lift off target. If you see it then the shot is there. If you didn't see it then you blinked and who knows where that shot went.
Yea, I reversed it already.
originally I was dead-set on blaming the sight, but they always say "the gun is more acurate than the shooter". Plus I measured it and the rear sight is exactly in the middle of the slide. I'll try shooting from a rest to better test the gun without human influence.
I know for a fact that the dot on my sights have to be ON the target. With my shotty or my AR I have the top of the sight just below where I want the bullet to impact... However with the glock everything is going low. I'll try a few shots from a rest and see if that changes.
If you have to hold on target (front sight covering point of impact) your never going to get much precision. I would change to some aftermarket sights. If this is a competition/target gun I would get a set of adjustables with a thin front sight. For drop in I like the dawson precisions with the .100 front. If you want the best than some bomar/champions milled into the slide with a .09 front.
If it's a carry gun then I would go with some hennies and then file the front sight to poi and widen the rear notch.
I just went to the range last night (lefty also) and I'm having the same problem. Most of my shots were falling low and to the right. I was able to correct this and occasionally was able to get my shots spot on with trigger pull adjustment and a grip change.
I'm still working on why I'm doing it but its pretty consistent. I'll continue trying to figure it out and fix it. If I come up with something I'll let you know. Oh and my groupings are pretty damn good if they just weren't low and to the right. Thats how I know its consistent and something I'm doing.