SRS Putin declares war in Ukraine, surprising no one

Scoob_13

Hello Nice FBI Lady
Oct 5, 2001
81,037
Jew Space Laser Control Center
I think it's important to note that the countries that are near Russia and have dealt with the aftermath of the Soviet Union are the ones most gung-ho about fucking Russia's shit up and keeping Ukraine free. France's opinion in this matter isn't worth shit.
France has usually maintained diplomatic relations as a good cop while others go out and play bad cop.


And frankly, Russia and Ukraine *need* to negotiate a peace.


So long as it includes pre-2014 borders, complete eviction of Russia without a salted earth retreat, and membership in NATO and EU for Ukraine, and a heckin' big military base in THE UKRAINE. And yes, I'm going to use THE because they've more than earned the honorific. :scootin:
 
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ludewig

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2000
9,387
Houston! Texas!
This was kinda a key sentence to me that hints at the why of western support/strategy, and the why seems kinda self-evident

"Whereas once the primary Western objective was to defend against the invasion, it has become the permanent strategic attrition of Russia"

Because otherwise, as Russia has clearly indicated through their lack of diplomatic will to reach a reasonable and humane compromise, that they would just regroup and come back in a year. So there's no other solution for Ukraine's self preservation than beating Russia to the point of concession
The part that go me was using the "to see Russia weakened" quote from Sec of Def Austin and not including a link or context or even the rest of the sentence "We want to see Russia weakened to the degree that it can't do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine”. Which is the immediate point. Russia has demonstrated they are a threat.
 

DizzyEdge

Vax me Trudaddy
OT Supporter
Dec 16, 2007
24,127
Calgary, AB
What in the actual fuck were they doing for the past 30 years? Because clearly it wasn't spent learning how to be a functional professional military
They probably fell into the trap that some western militaries did: expecting future conflicts to be army vs terrorists, Syria type engagements, not a well equipped and trained opponent that has sams and an airforce.

Plus massive amounts of corruption.
 

victor77

Internet Crew
OT Supporter
Mar 13, 2011
57,463
Internets
It shows. Like they haven't learned or changed anything since WW2 :rofl: :ugh:
The BTG format is really showing itself to be useless in a major war, but they haven't invested in the technology to do real combined arms warfare either. So, the BTG is really a result of their lack of ability to communicate and coordinate, and they're getting their asses handed to them because of it. If they had actual training, integration, reliable GPS and comms, the RU airforce would be able to provide close air support and attack UA armor......but none of that exists.
 

Scoob_13

Hello Nice FBI Lady
Oct 5, 2001
81,037
Jew Space Laser Control Center
Is it really all just a matter of money? Would more money make them smarter or better disciplined? Their entire doctrine and the way they operate just seems completely fucked. They can't do anything right.
Money pays for gear, r&d, training, fuel, training, ammunition and munitions (...are those considered separate? small arms ammunition and munitions like MLRS and cannon rounds, bombs, etc. Whatever.), etc.


So if you starve your military, or don't pay attention when you pay for 1000, lets say 500lb bombs, and 1000 A2G laser guided missiles, and you end up with.................................threeve. Well you tend to have issues.



Also it doesn't help if you're mostly 1 conscription force, and 1 year in-and-out, because by the time you learn the basics of something you're out the door already.
 
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Miesha Taint

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2006
46,372
I mean, he also thought that Germany and Japan should become nuclear powers and the the EU and NATO would break up and Germany rise as the dominant European power.
that's besides your earlier point isn't it

maybe let's just reel it in a bit
 

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