SRS Putin declares war in Ukraine, surprising no one

Simius The Monkey

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Under Russian military rules, troops who refuse to fight in Ukraine can face dismissal but cannot be prosecuted, said Mikhail Benyash, a lawyer who has been advising soldiers who choose that option.

lol
I know they couldn't use conscripts to fight because war wasn't actually declared. So... Instead, they basically tortured soldiers until they "willingly" signed a document enlisting them into the army to fight in Ukraine. You know. Because ritualistically pretending to follow the rule of law is Russia's way. Not actually following the rule of law.

On a side not to our army vets.... How would a US soldier be handled if he refused to fight? Let's say in Afghanistan until we had left or whatever. Similar dishonorable discharge and loss of benefits etal but nothing beyond that? Or...? I genuinely don't really know. But on the plus side for a US soldier the US would actually follow the rules of law that the US wrote up for such things.
 
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victor77

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I know they couldn't use conscripts to fight because war wasn't actually declared. So... Instead, they basically tortured soldiers until they "willingly" signed a document enlisting them into the army to fight in Ukraine. You know. Because ritualistically pretending to follow the rule of law is Russia's way. Not actually following the rule of law.

On a side not to our army vets.... How would a US soldier be handled if he refused to fight? Let's say in Afghanistan until we had left or whatever. Similar dishonorable discharge and loss of benefits etal but nothing beyond that? Or...? I genuinely don't really know. But on the plus side for a US soldier the US would actually follow the rules of law that the US wrote up for such things.
US troops can be discharged dishonorably or "other than honorably", but that's because the US military is an all-volunteer force. They volunteered for it and then changed their mind, so there are consequences....but they aren't going to be thrown in jail or discharged out a window.
 
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ludewig

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2000
9,383
Houston! Texas!
May 12:

Key Takeaways
  • Russian forces made marginal gains to the north of Severodonetsk and have likely captured Rubizhne and Voevodivka.
  • Russian forces fired intensively on Ukrainian positions in northern Kharkiv to stop the ongoing Ukrainian counteroffensive around Kharkiv City. The artillery focus on Ukrainian positions has likely diverted the Russian artillery that remains in range of Kharkiv to the more urgent task of stopping the Ukrainian advance.
  • Russian forces are strengthening their position on Snake Island in an effort to block Ukrainian maritime communications and capabilities in the northwestern Black Sea on the approaches to Odesa.
Immediate items to watch
  • The Belarusian Defense Ministry announced the second stage of rapid response force exercises, but Belarus remains unlikely to join the war in Ukraine.
  • Russia is likely setting conditions to integrate occupied Ukrainian territories directly into Russia, as opposed to creating proxy “People’s Republics.”
  • Russian forces have apparently decided to seize the Azovstal plant through ground assault and will likely continue operations accordingly.
  • Ukrainian counteroffensives around Kharkiv City are pushing back Russian positions northeast of the city toward the international border and will likely continue to force the Russians to reinforce those positions at the cost of reinforcing Russian offensive operations elsewhere.
 
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Simius The Monkey

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US troops can be discharged dishonorably or "other than honorably", but that's because the US military is an all-volunteer force. They volunteered for it and then changed their mind, so there are consequences....but they aren't going to be thrown in jail or discharged out a window.
Yeah. Likewise the Russian troops in Ukraine "volunteered" for it. I mean, they weren't actually given a choice and were volunteered for it. But by their laws they volunteered. So... That's why asked how it would play out in the US. I mean, I know it isn't actually similar. But "technically", which Russia cares about, it is even though it very much isn't so in practice.

And mostly I asked how the US handles that because while I have assumptions and I *think* I know it isn't one of those things that I actually know so I could be way off base with my assumptions. Better to ask a dumb question than just remain dumb and all that.
 

victor77

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Yeah. Likewise the Russian troops in Ukraine "volunteered" for it. I mean, they weren't actually given a choice and were volunteered for it. But by their laws they volunteered. So... That's why asked how it would play out in the US. I mean, I know it isn't actually similar. But "technically", which Russia cares about, it is even though it very much isn't so in practice.

And mostly I asked how the US handles that because while I have assumptions and I *think* I know it isn't one of those things that I actually know so I could be way off base with my assumptions. Better to ask a dumb question than just remain dumb and all that.
Yeah, don't get me wrong. A dishonorable discharge can fuck up your life in sorta the same way as having a felony on your record. That will follow you around for the rest of your life.
 

victor77

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Translation (apparently)

*brief intro, names, where they are from, what unit they are a part of*

Guy on left: We are POW's. They keep us in good living conditions, they don't abuse us. They give us food, water, and any medical attention we need. Living conditions are good.

Guy on right: We decided on our own to walk out and surrender. We left the (idk what he says Krem?)

Guy on left: Before they announced the special military operation we were at a post inhabited by Armenians, before we came here. Then we headed towards Chernobayev. We stayed there for a time. Then we were near Kherson, in the woods. From the woods we made our way though inhabited places. *names a few more towns*.

Guy on right: The majority (of russian soldiers) want to go home, and not participate in all of this.

Guy on left: Well... They were giving us orders. And at first we followed them. They didn't tell us what we would be doing at first, or where we'd be going. Soldiers were writing reports, in order to try and go back home. They were ripped up. They kept saying "in a day or two we will send you home" this persisted the entirety of our stay there. Everyone just wanted to go home, and live normally, peacefully.

Guy on right: Stop the bombing/shelling of cities. Bombing of poor civilians. We ourselves saew videos. We heard the bombing. Shells are hitting cities. Yes they hit military targets, but they also hit cities, and the citizens that reside there.

Guy on left: Yes, a lot of peaceful civilians are dying, regrettably. We just need to put ourselves in our place. How do you think they will react? Their kids, wives, are hiding in terror/horror in their basements. Political moments are just that, political. But this should never affect the peaceful citizens. Nobody has the right to take another persons life. These... *video ends*
 

Gaunt

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Apr 16, 2005
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I know they couldn't use conscripts to fight because war wasn't actually declared. So... Instead, they basically tortured soldiers until they "willingly" signed a document enlisting them into the army to fight in Ukraine. You know. Because ritualistically pretending to follow the rule of law is Russia's way. Not actually following the rule of law.

On a side not to our army vets.... How would a US soldier be handled if he refused to fight? Let's say in Afghanistan until we had left or whatever. Similar dishonorable discharge and loss of benefits etal but nothing beyond that? Or...? I genuinely don't really know. But on the plus side for a US soldier the US would actually follow the rules of law that the US wrote up for such things.
There are things worse than war, being stuck on rear-d is one of those things. Rear d is like the bitch taskings for the unit/base. Congrats, you are cleaning the rocks for 5 days a week, 8 hours a day. We might even give you a rake to rake the rocks.
 
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Lazy D.

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Oct 10, 2000
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I almost get the feeling that RU is just operating like a band of raiders, roaming from one place to the next and stealing all the shit they don't have themselves.
kinda like a Mongol horde
they do have that 15th-century Mongol authoritarian mentality, and many people in Ukraine believe that's where differences in values come from (old school European vs. old school Asian)
Russians were occupied by the Mongols for 300 years while Ukrainians were occupied by Poland, Turks, Rech Pospolita (Polish-Lithuanian kingdom), etc, so Ukrainians were more influenced by European values
 

Simius The Monkey

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The first bit of this video is hilarious to me. Basically it is need anchors being as neutral as possible reporting that Russia is a bunch of clowns, diplomatically speaking.
 

Simius The Monkey

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kinda like a Mongol horde
they do have that 15th-century Mongol authoritarian mentality, and many people in Ukraine believe that's where differences in values come from (old school European vs. old school Asian)
Russians were occupied by the Mongols for 300 years while Ukrainians were occupied by Poland, Turks, Rech Pospolita (Polish-Lithuanian kingdom), etc, so Ukrainians were more influenced by European values
I'm not smart or informed enough to understand it. But that's as good of an explanation as any. I know they've tried to westernize a number of times, but it just doesn't stick. Instead they are stuck with a backwards society regardless of their efforts, only ritualistically doing the correct thing while everything seems to, in practice, pull them the other way. It's a shame they are so broken. Maybe the next leader can set them on a better path. But damn, those dumb fucks have a lot to sort out internally before they will be able to actually improve their own people's lives and start being able to be a productive influence externally.

It would be hard to get them on a good track even with supreme power and good intentions. But hey, maybe miracles can happen. Until then... Fuck Putin. Fuck Russia.
 
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Simius The Monkey

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The funny thing about Russia and other troglodytes accusing NATO of conducting a proxy war is that is exactly what Russia's invasion of Ukraine was intended to be. A proxy war against NATO. Which is a proxy war against the US. One of their stated goals was to stop NATO from accepting countries that insisted on joining. To weaken NATO. To push back its borders.

But since their invasion failed so completely now they are whining about NATO it's fighting a proxy war against them. It's like... The ship has sailed as far as the West feeling guilty about actually standing up to you. Regardless of if you call it a proxy war or act like it is crossing the line for countries to aid their ally when it is being invaded or try to act like it is unfair that the West actively now wants to hurt you so you can't do it again, this is all on you. You chose this war. You decide every day to continue to hurt yourself by continuing this war. You can fuck off with whining about it.

You burned any bridges of the West thinking it might have gone too far when you started targeting civilians and raping children in occupied territories. Russia should be counting its lucky stars that their worst complaint is the proxy part of the proxy war. Whether it is a proxy war doesn't make the actions any less just and we can remove the proxy part whenever we choose.
 

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