SRS Putin declares war in Ukraine, surprising no one

Publius

Professor of Triggerednometry
Jan 16, 2004
159,015
Big D by the Trinity
I’m not acting like anything. I asked a question as to why it seems outlandish to call it a proxy war considering the aforementioned. This isn’t an emotional question. Y’all just mash your keys with outrage without considering it’s just a question. My name ain’t Putin.
I think you're getting the response you are because the groups claiming the west incited this war are using the same language, tbh. So it has become a kremlin talking point that the west is using Ukraine as a proxy to fight them, even though in reality they're getting the causal relationship RE: the west's involvement completely backwards. :dunno:
 

Publius

Professor of Triggerednometry
Jan 16, 2004
159,015
Big D by the Trinity
Probably. But just because Russia is the bad guy here doesn’t make the statements wrong. (My statements, not the statement that the west incited it).
Yeah. I absolutely agree that at this point it has become a proxy war for NATO against Russia. I have no issue with that statement, and I think absent the Kremlin's propaganda campaign most people would readily acknowledge that reality. But that's what happens when Russia invades a sovereign nation, the nations most likely to be impacted by that aggression's success are going to do whatever they can to support the victim of Russian aggression. The fact that the nations most impacted are NATO members created the conditions for this proxy war, and that's a fact Russia knew going into it... they just gambled that NATO would react like they did in 2014.
 

Dylith

OT Supporter
Jun 13, 2005
40,317
I’m not acting like anything. I asked a question as to why it seems outlandish to call it a proxy war considering the aforementioned. This isn’t an emotional question. Y’all just mash your keys with outrage without considering it’s just a question. My name ain’t Putin.
I think you are seeing some of the responses you are because the "proxy war" narrative is one that is generally meant to reduce the conflict in Ukraine from one where a country is justly defending itself from invasion (a setting in which Russia is the clear wrongdoer), to one in which the conflict is perpetuated not in the interest of or with the agency of Ukraine, but by elite outside powers sacrificing poor Ukraine for its own goals.

The second narrative generally casts "the west" as wrongdoers as well.
 

michael

Florida Man, Esq.
Dec 21, 2001
112,632
The ether
I think you are seeing some of the responses you are because the "proxy war" narrative is one that is generally meant to reduce the conflict in Ukraine from one where a country is justly defending itself from invasion (a setting in which Russia is the clear wrongdoer), to one in which the conflict is perpetuated not in the interest of or with the agency of Ukraine, but by elite outside powers sacrificing poor Ukraine for its own goals.

The second narrative generally casts "the west" as wrongdoers as well.
Sure, that’s why I’ve repeatedly tried to explain why I’m asking what I’m asking.
 

michael

Florida Man, Esq.
Dec 21, 2001
112,632
The ether
Yeah. I absolutely agree that at this point it has become a proxy war for NATO against Russia. I have no issue with that statement, and I think absent the Kremlin's propaganda campaign most people would readily acknowledge that reality. But that's what happens when Russia invades a sovereign nation, the nations most likely to be impacted by that aggression's success are going to do whatever they can to support the victim of Russian aggression. The fact that the nations most impacted are NATO members created the conditions for this proxy war, and that's a fact Russia knew going into it... they just gambled that NATO would react like they did in 2014.
That’s all I asked. I appreciate the answer 👍🏼
 
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jelloslug

OT Supporter
Jul 1, 2003
65,949
Greenville, SC
I know we are helping UA as we probably should, but can you blame Russia for now calling it a proxy war with all the media constantly bragging about “American donated equipment, paid for by American tax dollars, approved by American congress, send tO UA to defeat Russian, while training UA on the American Equipment, targeting RU with US intelligence”
If Ukraine were the ones attacking Russia, possibly.
 
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tomato paste

OT Supporter
Aug 28, 2014
16,970
I know we are helping UA as we probably should, but can you blame Russia for now calling it a proxy war with all the media constantly bragging about “American donated equipment, paid for by American tax dollars, approved by American congress, send tO UA to defeat Russian, while training UA on the American Equipment, targeting RU with US intelligence”
I don't give a shit about russia or what it wants to call this. Proxy war? Sure. Have at it. russia still getting their shit pushed in either way.
 
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Simius The Monkey

Long Live The Republic
OT Supporter
Sep 7, 2005
60,999
Minnesota
I know we are helping UA as we probably should, but can you blame Russia for now calling it a proxy war with all the media constantly bragging about “American donated equipment, paid for by American tax dollars, approved by American congress, send tO UA to defeat Russian, while training UA on the American Equipment, targeting RU with US intelligence”
Yes. I can blame Russia. Russia was treating it as a proxy war against NATO before they even invaded.
 

Actvs Dei

IG gunslingersaloon
OT Supporter
Apr 6, 2002
17,699
Austin


fwm-fuck.gif


Putin cant even invade ukraine lmao
 

Simius The Monkey

Long Live The Republic
OT Supporter
Sep 7, 2005
60,999
Minnesota
I feel like I heard numbers like 20k for the "International Legion of Territorial Defense of Ukraine"
Wikipedia does say over 20k "have volunteered" but no indication of how many have actually showed up.
I don't think they are accepting just anyone, even if they volunteered and did show up. I have no info on how many made it through training and whatever.
 

mistergin

Probably not your father...
May 12, 2001
3,777
Southeast Valley
I think you're getting the response you are because the groups claiming the west incited this war are using the same language, tbh. So it has become a kremlin talking point that the west is using Ukraine as a proxy to fight them, even though in reality they're getting the causal relationship RE: the west's involvement completely backwards. :dunno:

like sea lions with mounted weapons

1652472549915.png
 

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