SRS Shes lied from the beginning....

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by angerisagift, Jul 23, 2004.

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  1. angerisagift

    angerisagift It's all about the Red... Not about the Green!

    Oct 12, 2002
    Likes Received:
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Why do I still love her? My wife of four years lied and cheated on me, even though shes the one that would have nightmares about me cheating on her.
    She lied about it until I checked her call logs. She tells me shes confused and then says she wants a divorce. She told me she loves me. Thats obviously a lie. She said she wanted a kid with me, so I stopped using condoms, she stopped the pill(or so I thought) and she got pregnant, and we now have a 3 1/2 year old daughter. Just yesterday I found out that was a lie. She was still on birth control but didnt say anything because she was scared.
    She wants me to be her best friend. Not just for our daughter, but because she "needs" me, yet wont spend more than 5 minutess on the phone with me and spends hours talking to this other guy.
  2. Because you're allowing yourself to be used.
  3. angerisagift

    angerisagift It's all about the Red... Not about the Green!

    Oct 12, 2002
    Likes Received:
    Madison, Wisconsin
    All Ive ever done was try to make her happy, I left my whole family behind and moved to Wisconsin because she was miserable in Florida. I've broughten her flowers, done suprise stays in honeymoon suites, told her everyday how much I loved her and for what? For absolutely fucking nothing. She says she cares about me and she gets pissed when I tell her how I feel. Shes an alcoholic and Im scared of leaving her alone because shell only get worse and I'll blame myself for it.
  4. Is there some way you can find her help for her alcoholism?
  5. Your situation is very common. I'll suggest to you what I suggested to Stiffay in another thread.

    What you're suffering from is a typical co-dependancy issue. It's quite painful what you're going thru. The reason you love her is because you've tied your sense of self and your shortcomings to her behavior. When she fails, or disappoints you - you blame yourself. You've taken accountability, and responsibility for her shortcomings.

    The first thing you need to do is get yourself to an Alanon meeting:

    "You'll find Alanon useful then. All of us affected by someone else's Alcoholism either wished we could stop it or thought we could stop it. But ultimately nearly everyone realizes after a painful period of time that they can not manage it, or control it. If we try to control someone's drinking, they will merely do it when we're not looking. If we pour the bottles out, they will simply hide bottles in locations we either aren't aware of or don't have access to. The hardest thing to do when you think someone you love may have a problem with Alcohol is to have to hear someone like me say "You can only help yourself, and you can't control anyone else." And even then, most peoples first response is "But I'm not the one with the problem, why do I need help?" Unfortunately that's not true, the Alcoholic and those living with him or her both have their own unique problem.

    If you feel compelled to try to control someone else's drinking that's a fundamental indicator that you yourself have been affected by Alcoholism. It's not your fault, or his fault, and no matter how strong an individual is - Alcoholism can and usually is always stronger.

    To answer your questions, there are something's you can do to help her. And this is going to sound impossible to do, but the truth is the only way to help someone who is suffering from Alcoholism, is to first focus on yourself [get treatment, and keep going to treatment every week], and then second, [Don't enable the alcoholic, or try to control the alcoholic. ] and third support the Alcoholic by not harping on them for drinking, don't manipulate them, or guilt them with your resentment - instead work your program [the one you learn from Alanon] and detach with love. Love the alcoholic, but don't control them. Live your own life in the face of the Alcoholics adversity.

    This is painful advice. These suggestions are brutal for all of us - but ultimately this is the straightest line between where you currently are, and where you say you wish to go. The choice is yours.

    Links to Help You:

    (1)Alcoholism & Alanon Education Resource"

    How Can I Get Her to Stop?​

    Q: How can I get him or her to stop drinking? What can I do to make him or her see that he/she has a problem?

    A: By the time family members or friends ask this question, the drinker has usually crossed over from occasional alcohol abuse to actual alcohol dependence.

    In other words, they continue to drink in spite of obvious problems caused by their drinking. Personal, social and perhaps legal problems that would cause any reasonable person to conclude that their drinking habits should be curtailed or eliminated, do not seem to have much effect on those who are alcohol dependent, at least not in the long run.

    The reason for this is alcohol dependence is almost always accompanied by denial that there is a problem. No matter how obvious the problem seems to those around the alcoholic, the alcohol dependent person loudly denies that drinking is the cause, and usually blames the circumstances or people around them instead.

    When visitors to the Alcoholism site at ask the above questions about the drinker in their lives, via email, on the Forum bulletin board, or in our chat rooms, the answer they usually receive is, "Unfortunately, there is not much anyone can do, until they admit they have a problem."

    Forcing Solutions

    If the alcoholic is not ready to reach out for help, efforts by friends and family to try to force them to admit to the problem, usually causes more problems. It's only when the consequences of their drinking becomes painful enough will they reach out for help.

    Sometimes in extreme cases, when the drinker's health and well-being becomes critically threatened, a professional intervention may become necessary, but even then sometimes the attempt will create even more problems.

    So, what do we tell the families and friends when they ask what they can do to help? We suggest that they attend Al-Anon meetings in their area, or join an online group to learn more about the family disease of alcoholism.

    In Al-Anon, family members and friends can learn more about the unhealthy roles they may be playing in the life of the alcoholic, and whether or not their actions may actually be enabling the alcoholic to continue in their behavior, without them realizing it.

    In Al-Anon Family Groups, people can learn how to detach from the alcoholic's problems -- not the alcoholic -- and can find a wealth of Al-Anon literature to read that can help them to find solutions that lead to serenity.


    (1) - How Do I Get Him To Stop

    Why Do I Need Help? She's the Alcoholic!​

    Alcoholism is a disease that affects every member of the family [It also affects lovers, and friends], to the extent that the kids who make it into the Alateen rooms report they generally have more problems dealing with the non-drinking parent than they do the alcoholic.

    What? But I don't have a problem! He... him... he's the alcoholic! He's the one who causes all the problems! He's the one in trouble all the time ...

    True, but he's also predictable. Kids can read the alcoholic like a book. They know exactly when it's the right time to ask for extra money, or to go somewhere with their friends, and also know when it's time to make themselves scarce and get out of the way. They know the routine as far as the alcoholic is concerned. But they never know where the bedraggled non-drinking parent is coming from next.

    One minute she (or he as the case may be) is screaming at the alcoholic -- threatening him with everything from from divorce to death -- and the next minute she may be compassionately rescuing him from the consequences of his latest episode -- dutifully cleaning up his messes, making excuses for him and accepting an increasing degree of unacceptable behavior.

    The truth is the disease of alcoholism has affected her life, her attitude and her thinking perhaps more dramatically than it has the drinking spouse and she may not even realize it. Why? Because it crept up on her slowly.

    Frog In The Water

    A few years back, there was a story going around the 12-step rooms [Another name for Alanon, or A.A usually] about a frog in the water. It goes like this:

    If you put a frog into a pan of boiling water, it will jump out faster than the eye can see. But if you put the frog into a pan of water that is the frog's body temperature and then slowly turn up the heat the frog will stay in the water -- even to the point of boiling alive. Why? Because the frog does not notice the gradual change in temperature.

    Alcoholism works the same way... the heat is constantly turned up but nobody notices. Cunning and baffling! A progressive disease. It may start out with casually accepting unacceptable behavior -- Oh, he didn't mean that, he just had too much to drink last night. A few years down the road the behavior has slowly grown more and more intolerable, but it is still being accepted and becomes the "norm."

    She ends up with chaos in her own home that a few short years ago would have been unthinkable. If she looked out the window and saw the same kind of things taking place across the street at the neighbor's house, she would probably pick up the phone and call 9-1-1 to get those people some help!

    An Insidious Disease

    As that same type of behavior becomes routine in her own home, the last thing that would occur to her is to pick up the telephone and get help. She has slowly been drawn into the thinking that the alcoholic should be protected. She has learned to cover for him, lie for him and hide the truth. She has learned to keep secrets, no matter how bad the chaos and insanity all around her has become.

    Few who have been affected by the disease of alcoholism realize that by "protecting" the alcoholic with little lies and deceptions to the outside world, which have slowly but surely increased in size and dimension, she has actually created a situation that makes it easier for him to continue -- and progress -- in his downward spiral. Rather than help the alcoholic, and herself, she has actually enabled him to get worse.

    The heat increased so gradually, over such an extended period of time, nobody noticed the water was beginning to boil and it was time to jump out of the pan.

    The disease will continue to progress for the alcoholic until he is ready to reach out and get help for himself. Waiting for that to happen is not her only choice.

    The other people can begin to recover whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not. But it can't happen until somebody picks up that telephone and asks for help.
    There is hope and help out there.


    (1) - Why Do I Need Help? He's the Alcoholic!
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2004
  6. Now onto your problem with Codependancy:

    What is codependency? What's the definition? There are many definitions used to talk about codependency today. The original concept of codependency was developed to acknowledge the responses and behaviors people develop from living with an alcoholic or substance abuser. A number of attributes can be developed as a result of those conditions.

    However, over the years, codependency has expanded into a definition which describes a dysfunctional pattern of living and problem solving developed during childhood by family rules.

    One of many definitions of codependency is: a set of *maladaptive, *compulsive behaviors learned by family members in order to survive in a family which is experiencing *great emotional pain and stress.

    *maladaptive - inability for a person to develop behaviors which get needs met.

    *compulsive - psychological state where a person acts against their own will or conscious desires in which to behave.

    *sources of great emotional pain and stress - chemical dependency; chronic mental illness; chronic physical illness; physical abuse; sexual abuse; emotional abuse; divorce; hypercritical or non-loving environment.

    As adults, codependent people have a greater tendency to get involved in relationships with people who are perhaps unreliable, emotionally unavailable, or needy. And the codependent person tries to provide and control everything within the relationship without addressing their own needs or desires; setting themselves up for continued unfulfillment.

    Even when a codependent person encounters someone with healthy boundaries, the codependent person still operates in their own system; they’re not likely to get too involved with people who have healthy boundaries. This of course creates problems that continue to recycle; if codependent people can’t get involved with people who have healthy behaviors and coping skills, then the problems continue into each new relationship.

    How do I know if I’m codependent?: Generally, if you’re feeling unfulfilled consistently in relationships, you tend to be indirect, don’t assert yourself when you have a need, if you’re able to recognize you don’t play as much as others, or other people point out you could be more playful. Things like this can indicate you’re codependent.

    What are some of the symptoms?
    • controlling behavior
    • distrust
    • perfectionism
    • avoidance of feelings
    • intimacy problems
    • caretaking behavior
    • hypervigilance (a heightened awareness for potential threat/danger)
    • physical illness related to stress
    Isn’t everyone codependent?: There are some natural and healthy behaviors mothers do with children that look like codependency. Are people mutually interdependent on each other? Yes. There is perhaps a continuum of codependency, that most people might fall on. Maybe this continuum exists because so many people are taught not to be assertive, or to ask directly for their needs to be met? We probably can’t say though that everyone is codependent. Many people probably don’t feel fulfilled because of other things going on in the system at large.

    Anne Wilson Schaef believes the whole society is addicted; the object of addiction isn't the important issue, but rather that the environment sets us up to be addicted to something, i.e. food, sex, drugs, power, etc.

    If that is true, then all of us are either addicts or codependents. From this perspective, society produces a pattern making it hard not to be codependent. But it still doesn’t change that we’re not getting what we need and we’re not feeling fulfilled. Then the question is, how do I become more fulfilled and feel better about myself and the life I’m living?

    Why do we become codependent? What causes it?: It’s widely believed we become codependent through living in systems (families) with rules that hinder development to some degree. The system (usually parents and relatives) has been developed in response to some problem such as alcoholism, mental illness or some other secret or problem.

    General rules set-up within families that may cause codependency may include:
    • It’s not okay to talk about problems
    • Feelings should not be expressed openly; keep feelings to yourself
    • Communication is best if indirect; one person acts as messenger between two others; known in therapy as triangulation
    • Be strong, good, right, perfect
    • Make us proud beyond realistic expectations
    • Don’t be selfish
    • Do as I say not as I do
    • It’s not okay to play or be playful
    • Don’t rock the boat.
    Many families have one or more of these rules in place within the family. These kinds of rules can constrict and strain the free and healthy development of people’s self-esteem, and coping. As a result, children can develop non-helpful behavior characteristics, problems solving techniques, and reactions to situations in adult life

    Melody Beattie writes that codependency is unique in that recovery can be fun and liberating. What does she mean?

    You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don't try. --Beverly Sills

    Oftentimes, a part of being codependent is a resistance to being able to have fun and play! So part of recovery from codependency is learning how to let go and have fun. Therefore it’s bound to be liberating, and fun as we learn how to let go and play.

    How can counseling help?: For people with codependency, individual counseling can teach assertiveness, listening, and communication. Counseling can help you become more aware of non-helpful actions/behaviors, and work with you on developing new, healthier coping skills.

    In the case of codependency though, counseling only helps if the counselor is aware of their own tendency towards codependence, or if the counselor has some understanding about the addictive push in our society. Counselors, in the case of codependency, need to present good boundary setting and healthy living themselves during sessions with clients. If a counselor develops a working relationship with a client that has codependent qualities, again, the pattern is repeated, and therapy may not be as helpful. Some statistics show 50-80% of counselors have not addressed their own codependency issues. So one must be careful in choosing a counselor for this kind of support.

    There are also self-help groups for codependency, called CODA groups. More information is available through local alcoholism services. If you can’t find a CODA group, there’s also ACA (adult children of alcoholics groups) that deal with similar issues CODA groups might deal with.


    (1) - Codependancy
  7. Now I'll personally address your post: I've experienced much of the pain you're enduring in my own experience. It's extremely painful to love someone who doesn't love themselves - it's even harder to let go of someone you love whom is harming you, because you yourself don't love yourself enough to even recognize it. When you're a codependent who hasn't gotten treatment, you blame yourself for the failures of others. Everything in your life you try to control, or to manage, including people, places and things. And no matter how often reality shows you that it can't be done, co-dependants continue to do so, because it's become ingrained in them. They've learned to not trust anything but their own dysfunctional perspective.

    You have an attachment disorder that doesn't permit you to appropriately meet your own needs, and thus you suffer horrendous pain, confusion, guilt, and depression. Not only is the betrayal horrendous, you fear for your own child, knowing she's caught in the middle, and that she's confined to such a dysfunctional situation.

    The truth is, you'll need to make some critical choices. You must decide what you're priorities are. It's quite clear your wife is sick, and dysfunctional. You may love her, but I'm certain you don't like her or her behavior. It's quite ok to feel that way. It's ok to be angry at her. She's hurt you horribly - whether she meant to nor not. And that's her responsibility.

    Now it's up to you to decide whether you're going to allow her to continue to harm you and your child. It's ok to ask for help. It's ok to be angry.

    Other threads in the Asylum forum have dealt with the type of betrayal you're experiencing. I'll repeat what I said to another woman who is enduring something similar - only in her case she's the one who cheated on her husband a number of years ago, and now he's abusing her, and acting much like your wife - perhaps you'll take something from what I've said to her, and apply it to your own life in relationship to your wife.

    "I will get straight to the point: Individual Counseling and Couples Counseling are necessary here. If he's not willing to attend couples counseling, then minimally you can look into individual counseling for yourself, because it's blatantly clear you need that support.

    Actions speak louder than words. His mouth said he forgave you, but his actions speak of resentment. Not only is he resentful but he's extremely abusive.
    While you are responsible for your actions - including those in the past, you are not responsible for his "response" to those actions in the present now. His behavior is unjustified, abusive, and unacceptable, and you have every right to set boundaries and to let him know you won't allow yourself to be treated that way. To allow yourself to be treated that way is undermining your self esteem, and your value as a human being. Additionally, I don't believe his behavior is the direct result of what you did. It may have given him a reason in his mind to behave the way he is now, but it's most certainly not normal. I believe there were serious problems long before you cheated, and I think your cheating was a result of feeling powerless and as though you had no options. You probably felt helpless, and I'm sure he too had a lot of problems that he had not faced.

    What I am saying here is incredibly difficult to do, but for your own sake, you must. You must focus on your behavior, and choose how you will respond to his actions in way which allows you to have your own healthy sense of self - without sacrificing your self respect or integrity in order to appease him out of guilt or shame for your past shortcomings. People make mistakes, and each time he abuses you - it's not righting a wrong, and by forgiving him and allowing him to continue behaving that way isn't appropriate either. It's not solving the problem. He's as much responsible for his failure now as you were in the past for yours; in-fact he's even more so responsible because his behavior is occurring in the present where he still has a choice and some power over whether he chooses to act the way he does or not, while you are bound and tied and unable to change the past since it's resigned to a memory. He's using your guilt and shame as a weapon, and that's not loving, that's vile and abusive. You're powerless over your past, but you're not powerless over the present, so you'll have to make some tough decisions about what you're willing to accept, and what you're not willing to accept. Remember, you don't have to accept the unacceptable.

    There is a difference between you two also. You want to change, and right your wrongs, and you want to do better. He doesn't, or at least hasn't.

    He is responsible for his words and actions, and his lack of integrity and self respect, as well as his verbal abuse is unacceptable behavior, even in response to what he endured 3 years ago. It's quite clear he needs help moving through what he endured, but I hardly think this behavior alone is being triggered or caused by anything you did, including the cheating. There is something else going on that is causing him to behave this way, and you are not the source of it, even if he says or you are, or if you feel you are.

    At this time, it's no longer about cheating, it's about control and power, and he has a choice, and so do you."
  8. I'm sure this is hard to hear - and you've spent a lifetime doing quite the opposite, but it's impossible to make anyone be anything. You can't make anyone happy. It's simply impossible, especially an Alcoholic. Now you can do things that provide an opportunity for the other individual to "choose" to be happy, sad, or whichever feeling they wish to experience, but you can't "make" them.

    You can't please anyone but yourself - that's the only person you have and will have any direct control over. Let me share a little bit of information with you from the relationship thread I recently posted:

    "When you have a chance to demonstrate "who you are" in a relationship that alone makes it a success, but when thought of as looking for a desired result, that is where we as "people" make our biggest mistakes.

    Most people enter into relationships with an eye toward what they can get out of them, rather than what they can put into them.

    The purpose of a relationship is to decide what part of yourself you'd like to see "show up", not what part of another you can capture and hold.

    There can be only one purpose to relationships, and for all of live: to be and to decide who you really are.

    It is very romantic to say that you were "nothing" until that special someone came along, but it is not true. Worse it puts an incredible pressure on the other to be all sorts of things he, or she is not.

    Not wanting to "let you down," they try very hard to be, and do these things until they cannot anymore. the can no longer complete your picture of them. The can no longer fill the roles to which they have been assigned. Resentment builds, and then anger follows.

    This problem is so basic, so simple, and yet so tragically misunderstood: Your grandest dream, your highest idea, and your fondest hope has had to do with your beloved other rather than your beloved self. The test of your relationships has had to do with how well the other lived up to your ideas, and how well you saw yourself living up to his or hers. Yet the only true test has to do with how well you live up to yours.

    Relationships are scared because they provide life's grandest opportunity-indeed, it's only opportunity - to create and produce the experience of your highest conceptualization of self. Relationships fail when you see them as life's grandest opportunity to create, and produce the experience of your highest conceptualization of another."

    If you wish to read the rest of the thread, it can be found on page two of Asylum, and it's titled "Relationships."

    You will get thru this, and you can find peace, but it's going to require you to make some very difficult choices. For your own sanity, and your own serenity, not only will you have to get yourself help, and treatment, but you're going to have to let her go. You can't lose what you never had, and Alcoholism is a vile heart-wenching disease. You can't help her, and you must allow her to be accountable for her own suffering, her own shortcomings, and for the consequences which result. If you don't - you'll be enabling her which will keep her sick even longer than she might otherwise be. She is an adult, and although she's still sick - she is responsible, and you must detach with love.
  9. angerisagift

    angerisagift It's all about the Red... Not about the Green!

    Oct 12, 2002
    Likes Received:
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Im reading a book on Codepency, going to a psychologist, but its just that Im scared, I dont want to let her go, not because of the relationship but because I fear shell end up dead or seriously ill. And i dont want my daughter to have to go through that either. jesus christ, I dont even know what to say, I draw a blank when Im going to type. I know I have to care about myself, but I just cant, I cant let go of the mother of my child and the love of my life to see her life go down the drain. Shes too good for that.
  10. Last but not least - She does care for you in her own distorted and dysfunctional way, but love isn't enough when you're as sick as she is. And nobody can save her but herself. Let go, it's the right thing, and get yourself to ACA, CODA, Alanon, and Counseling.
  11. I know it's scary. I know. It's such a horribly painful thing I'm asking of you. But, I promise you - if you don't let go, you'll die. You're heart will break, and your soul will die - you'll be the empty shell which your daughter won't recognize. You must demonstrate by your example that you can be strong, and you can make the right decisions for yourself, for your daughter, and for your wife. If you don't let her go, she'll never face the hardships required to make her own decision to enter recovery - you'll be absolving her of her own right to choose. If she faces her consequences - and you step aside, the pain will be enormous, but it's the only real chance she has.

    You must lead by example, and break the cycle. The pain is horrendous when you initially make such a decision - and we'll all be there for you if you do. You must make a choice. And remember, if you don't make a choice - you've still chosen.

    Remember, recovery requires faith in something greater than yourself. Perhaps the support groups, the psychologists, or even myself will say something that empowers you - are we greater than you? Sure, we're not you, and we're not caught in the same cycle you are. You'll find the answers if you look - but remember, it's ok to not have all the answers. None of us can enter recovery alone unless we reach out. Maybe if you step aside and enter into recovery, your wife will possibly reach out too, but inevitably that's her choice. In the end as adults - we all must choose our own paths and no one can walk it for us.

    Also, I want to applaud you on seeing a therapist, and on beginning your recovery by educating yourself on Co-dependency. It will take time for it to all sink in, and for the changes to come about, but when they do, you'll wake on morning with a profound sense of serenity. You'll feel good about having done what is right, and what is wise. You will make it - because we're all here to ensure you've got the support to do so.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2004
  12. It's also important to remember that you don't have to make this decision this exact moment. Whatever you choose to do - just think about it. Talk with people, your therapist - other members at those meetings I mentioned. Come here if it feels right. But remain open-minded and you'll make your way into the light.
  13. dmac411

    dmac411 OT Supporter

    Sep 18, 2003
    Likes Received:
    dallas, tx
    from what you posted, is it even your daughter? b/c it seems that she was on birth control when you tried to conceive?
  14. angerisagift

    angerisagift It's all about the Red... Not about the Green!

    Oct 12, 2002
    Likes Received:
    Madison, Wisconsin
    then whos daughter would it be? :squint: Jesus's? If she was on the pill what does her being pregnant have to do with being my child or someone elses?
    The pill is not 100% fool proof.
    It is my daughter. She looks like a mirror of me and my wife didn't cheat on me then. Shes promised me that.
    She cheated because it was an escape, because it took away the regrets she feels and not because she just wanted dick or for revenge. If you're not gonna help, just go away.
  15. I don't think he's trying to upset you - although you may have taken it that way. I think he just might have been confused by the way you worded your first post.
  16. angerisagift

    angerisagift It's all about the Red... Not about the Green!

    Oct 12, 2002
    Likes Received:
    Madison, Wisconsin
    MB-just to give you a small update. We spoke for a bit last night and she did admit that she has a problem. She told me she is gonna see a psychologist and will tell the psychologist about the problem.
    She told me she might eventually go to AA, but is just scared right now. I told her that Id support her every step of the way, whether we are married or not, and that Im always there for her. She also asked me that whatever happens between us for me not to go back to Miami (where Im originally from) because she needs me in her life and cant picture her life without me. And I promised I wouldnt do that. Not only because I dont want my daughter to be away from either parent but because I'll always care for her(my wife) and always love her.
    And thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it. I've tried to look for an Al-Anon meeting group here in my city but Im not having a whole lot of luck.

  17. We're here if you need us. If you need help finding a meeting locally, let me know. I can certainly help you there. Also, remember that it's important to take care of yourself regardless of what your wife does. Admitting you have a problem and actually actively taking steps to improve the situation are two entirely different things. Try not to have expectations of your wife - focus on you, and you'll see that this is all going to work out.
  18. angerisagift

    angerisagift It's all about the Red... Not about the Green!

    Oct 12, 2002
    Likes Received:
    Madison, Wisconsin
    If you could help me find an Al-Anon group I'd appreciate it, Im having no such luck,the only ones I've found have been in Milwaukee, and thats about an hour and a half drive from me (Im in Madison, Wi)
    and thanks again
  19. PM me your location. State, City, & Zip
  20. Call Them To Mail You A Local Booklet For Local Meetings

    Al-Anon Family Groups
    Address: 1826 Kropf Ave, Madison, WI 53704
    Phone: (608) 241-6644​
  21. There is a Codependant Meeting at this location in your area - call the number to make sure the meeting is still currently active. You can also e-mail the contact person for the WI area which is: Tony H., The E-mail is: - He handles a lot of inquiries for the Wisconsin area.

    Madison, WI
    Meeting Day : Wednesday
    Time : 6:30PM
    Group Number : WI062
    Group Name : Madison CoDA
    Meeting Place : Midvale Community Lutheran Church
    Street : 4329 Tokay Boulevard
    County : Dane
    Zip Code : 53711
    Meeting Type : Open, share, step study
    Special Instructions : Corner of Tokay Blvd. and Midvale Blvd.
    Contact Phone : (608) 270-9019
    Last Update : 11/30/2003
    Language : English​
  22. You can also write the Codependant Anonymous World Service which handles nearly the entire U.S. listings.

    Co-Dependents Anonymous World Service, Inc.

    P.O. Box 7051,
    Thomaston, GA USA 30286-0025
    Email: [B][/B]
    Telephone: 1-706-648-6868
  23. Here is the Madison Area Al-Anon Website:
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