LOVE singles' social etiquette in a tight group of couples

[Aquakittie]

background: My SO lives with 4 other guys - 3 in their mid-20s, my SO 32, and the home owner, 30 who we'll call "Johnny". The other key roomie we'll call "Luke".

Luke and Johnny are both fuck-em-chuck-em-and-then-fuck-em-a-few-more-times-for-good-measure types. Cool, right on, you're doin your thing and the ladies know your reputations now so they know better than to get emotionally invested. Johnny, as he's getting older, really thinks he wants the "american dream" family, picket fence, yadda yadda yadda. But it goes entirely against the grain of his personal programming. He gets GF's very begrudgingly and has "fun" for a few weeks and then either finds totally psycho chicks who end up getting clingy or he starts purposely picking fights with nice girls to end it. And then he affirms how bad relationships are but really all he's confirming is that he's repeatedly making bad mate choices....on purpose or just affirming his own sabotaging. Luke is now starting to get the relationship fever too. But he still fucks and chucks but its on the back burner.

Johnny has a nice GF now....the sister of a really good friend in the group, which is kinda bad news, but already there's red flags that aren't her fault. He has a problem with smokers/tokers and heavy drinkers. She's all of those and young. But she's tolerant of his ways. But he finds fault in all those things despite knowing it going in and picks fights about them constantly.

Luke decides to start seeing this new girl "Sarah". Hot little number, and flirty.

The Story: the whole group of us are all at a going away sports bar party this past weekend. We're a very tight knit group, very huggy and family-affectionate towards each other. New people are always welcome but they must be "welcomed" in to the tight connection over time. Most of the people attending are couples and/or married. Johnny's GF is there, and Luke's new date is there...1st time the rest of us are meeting Sarah.

Things are going ok, Johnny and GF are being cute, Sarah is getting to know the group etc. Everyone is talking to her to welcome the new person in. Everyone shifts around to smoke, bathroom break, eat food, whatever. Johnny ends up sitting next to Luke and Sarah. His GF comes back inside, sees him sitting there, but keeps it cool. Sarah quickly becomes too flirty with Johnny and every guy there really. Too touchy. She twists Johnny's nipples for no apparent reason and only after having met him 20min prior. I happened to see it. Others saw it. Luke doesn't seem to care. For me it was out of sight out of mind after a while because I hate getting involved. Then next thing I know the GF is pissed and now Johnny is pissed she's pissed. GF makes the mistake of using the terrible approach of "no, I won't go outside and talk to you. You should know why I'm pissed". Not a good way to solve problems. Buuuut in her defense, Johnny spent way too much time talking/flirting with Sarah and Sarah was there on a date with Luke and shouldn't have been so touchy/flirty IMO.

Johnny storms out claming he's leaving (drunk) and single. GF doesn't get why he's mad. But all the guys in the group chase after him and talk him down. He's a bit of a hot head especially after drinking. So everyone's murmuring about the dispute and none of the guys realize what the problem was. Well for one they didn't notice the tittie twister and once told they they changed their tunes a bit. They all thought GF was just acting jealous and crazy and were defending his actions to some degree. They were claiming that Sarah was just being flirty and that everyone was trying to make her feel welcome.

I was explaining the situation to my SO later when we were discussing the outcome. He thought it was harmless flirting (before knowing about the physical contact) and thought she was trying her best to fit in. While that might have been the case, she was being inappropriate. Then to find out she made a date with another single guy at the party who's friends with Luke. Totally classy.

The problem is this: Everyone in our group IS huggy and family-affectionate, but that's because we all are long standing friends and know the group. But its not ok for some stranger to walk in off the street and get too chummy and flirty and touchy especially while she's there on a date before she knows her role in the group and the roles of everyone else in the group. If she knew GF and her dynamic with Johnny she probably wouldn't have done that..or maybe not...but still. We all play and act silly with each other but we know where the line is drawn and where not to take things. This girl came in on the prowl and was willing to act over the top to anyone giving her attention...and for that Sarah's in the wrong. She wasn't there on loyal pretenses to Luke despite good intentions.

What are your thoughts on how singles (should) act in a tight knit group filled with couples? And how should the offended parties handle the situation if a singleton acted out of turn in the social group in this context....

 

[Falconer]

If my gf was touching some other dude's nipples I'd dump her on the spot regardless. Not sure what else to say.

I'm pretty old school, though. There is no "harmless flirting" if you're in a relationship.

Single people can flirt all they want, even with someone who is in a relationship. The burden is on the person in the relationship to control themselves. In other words, if I'm dating someone and some dude is flirting with her, I don't really care. If she flirts back, then we have a problem.

That's just me, though. Everyone has their own boundaries and I know some people who wouldn't care or would even be turned on if their SO was flirting with someone else.

 

[Aquakittie]

If my gf was touching some other dude's nipples I'd dump her on the spot regardless. Not sure what else to say.

I'm pretty old school, though. There is no "harmless flirting" if you're in a relationship.

Single people can flirt all they want, even with someone who is in a relationship. The burden is on the person in the relationship to control themselves. In other words, if I'm dating someone and some dude is flirting with her, I don't really care. If she flirts back, then we have a problem.

That's just me, though. Everyone has their own boundaries and I know some people who wouldn't care or would even be turned on if their SO was flirting with someone else.

This is how I see it too. The person flirting with my (the general me) SO isn't respecting me or our relationship even if its harmless or not reciprocated. I told my SO if Sarah did that to him, I'd be pissed too....And I asked him how GF could have better handled her disapproval. I agree she should not have declined to talk to Johnny outside about it and should not have used the "you should know why I'm pissed" route because its just game playing.

But should GF have said something over the table to Johnny and Sarah? Should she have pulled him aside? My SO said she shoulda said something right there on the spot but I was like, "like that woulda gone over well, her hollering across the table for Sarah to get her paws off her BF. That would have made for a fucked up scene." Johnny shouldn't have participated and just made polite conversation and moved on after a few min or invited GF to sit with them and talk to all of them.

But I see this often...mostly with single chicks in the group. They come to a social gathering, either having known the group to some degree beforehand, thinking they still have the same dynamic with the men of the group that they did back in the day, or coming in as a stranger and they're all "feet up on the coffee table" way too soon or just being too flirty with men in the group that are taken. Incidentally, when the guy is married or has children with his SO, the prowlers tend to stay back but even guys in serious LTR they look at as fair game. And then they wonder why all the females of the group want to kick their asses.

But the guys don't get it...they claim they wouldn't reciprocate the flirting and that the SO's should trust them not to indulge the floosy. But that's not the (entire) point. A. we don't want a supposed "friend" shaking her tail feathers under the noses of our guys and B. the fact that she is, is her blatant disregard for me, the SO and my relationship to my partner.

I think there's 2 types of flirting in this context.
1...is blatant unabashed, doe-eyed "how youuu dooooin?!" flirting with no regard to relationship status and with the intent to try to pick up on the other person.
2...is playful familiar banter that is often said in front of the SO or semi-inclusive with the SO. Or of a suggestive nature but merely for discussion not purpose. ie friend says to me, while wagging his eye brows at my SO, pointing a comical finger at me says "those are some big ass titties AK" and his GF proceeds to bop each of my boobs playfully. We all laugh, my SO says "that's right, thems my play things" (or whatever) and bops them too. We all laugh some more and move on. We have a lot of very sexually oriented conversations....either just teasing or just very candid in what we talk about so the boob bopping is pretty normal.

The friend in that case was NOT coming onto me but was stating the obvious in a playful way that would encourage my SO to be saucy with me. We all enjoy seeing each other be affectionate in our couplings.

 

[Aquakittie]

a similar situation happened to my SO and I in the group a few months ago. We were having our usual Thirsty Thursday night beer and game night after softball and this girl "Narissa" and her roomie show up. Narissa hugs everyone like we do, and she hugged me...apparently we met once before... but I could have sworn I've never met her before so obviously it must have been brief or else I'd remember her.

Narissa and her roomie make fast work of getting hammered. My SO, myself and a few others got fast food and were eating on the patio. The group is quietly munching away on dinner sitting around the pool. She and her roomie are saucy. She out of the blue gets up, walks over to my SO all saucy and sautering and bends down right in his face, all slow and provocative and takes a bite of his burger before his next bite. "Mmmmm, thaaaaaanks Mr AK". Everyone looks at her, looks at me, and then him....he frowns, and says "you're not welcome, that's MY sandwich" and laughs.

I did nothing, just gave her a deathly dirty look, which she was oblivious to.

He still teases me about it to this day claiming I got too riled up about it....he said it was harmless and that she's an old friend...my dispute isn't that she's a friend...obviously not that good a friend since its been a year and I have only seen her once apparently and this is a very tight group that socializes on a weekly basis.

He did NOT reciprocate her sauciness so I wasn't upset with him, well, I wish he woulda said something more direct about it, but whatever. But I was pissed at her for being so disrespectful of our relationship. She's a stranger to me and is trying to be provocative with my boyfriend right under my nose. She's not taking his and my relationship seriously and doesn't care how that might make me feel...and if she's a friend you don't do that.

Then she goes in to house and nearly rapes Luke from the OP to get him to go upstairs with her.....really classy gal.

Yes, its just a bite of sandwich, but its the principle behind the action that's the point.


and then the trashed haggard roomie starts striping in the hot tub and offering titty suckles to anyone wanting one......EVERYONE including the single guys leaped out fast....and most of the couples were in complete disgust..

 

[Diesel66]

It wouldn't bother me in my group, minus the nipple twist. Thats a little too far for someone new. But then we tend to be heavily flirting and some light molesting.

Had a female friend, with bf there, twist my nipple and I warned her and the bf. She did it a second time and I did it to her.

 

[Diesel66]

Oh fuck no, taking a bite from a sandwich is not a good idea. I'd be weirded out if anyone short of a gf did that to me. hygiene issues, I'm hungry lol, plus wtf was she thinking.

 

[Aquakittie]

It wouldn't bother me in my group, minus the nipple twist. Thats a little too far for someone new. But then we tend to be heavily flirting and some light molesting.

Had a female friend, with bf there, twist my nipple and I warned her and the bf. She did it a second time and I did it to her.

what do you mean you warned them? Told them it made you uncomfortable? or?

The nipple twist was where it went in the no-no place for me too. Johnny WAS ignoring GF but that might have been excusable w/o the physical contact. They were only paying her a lot of attention because she was hot and flirty....it wasn't about "making her feel comfortable in the new group"

 

[Aquakittie]

Oh fuck no, taking a bite from a sandwich. Is be weirded out if anyone short of a gf did that.

are you being sarcastic?

if not I agree. Its kind of a personal/intimate thing to share food/drink in such a way. Sure, I'll take a bite of my SO's or BFF's food or family's but it just seems a little too personal when a casual acquaintance does that especially in the way she did it. There are a ton of ways she could have approached the sandwich situation without being inappropriate. She coulda just asked if she could snag a piece, or asked for some fries...or pretty much anything that didn't involve being R-rated about it.

 

[Diesel66]

I told her if she did it again, I'd do it to her. Her bf is super jealous/hates when she flirts or flashes, so I give her more distance normally.

 

[Falconer]

a similar situation happened to my SO and I in the group a few months ago. We were having our usual Thirsty Thursday night beer and game night after softball and this girl "Narissa" and her roomie show up. Narissa hugs everyone like we do, and she hugged me...apparently we met once before... but I could have sworn I've never met her before so obviously it must have been brief or else I'd remember her.

Narissa and her roomie make fast work of getting hammered. My SO, myself and a few others got fast food and were eating on the patio. The group is quietly munching away on dinner sitting around the pool. She and her roomie are saucy. She out of the blue gets up, walks over to my SO all saucy and sautering and bends down right in his face, all slow and provocative and takes a bite of his burger before his next bite. "Mmmmm, thaaaaaanks Mr AK". Everyone looks at her, looks at me, and then him....he frowns, and says "you're not welcome, that's MY sandwich" and laughs.

I did nothing, just gave her a deathly dirty look, which she was oblivious to.

He still teases me about it to this day claiming I got too riled up about it....he said it was harmless and that she's an old friend...my dispute isn't that she's a friend...obviously not that good a friend since its been a year and I have only seen her once apparently and this is a very tight group that socializes on a weekly basis.

Of course he didn't care. He was the one getting the attention.

I'm sure if the situation was reversed he would've cared.

He did NOT reciprocate her sauciness so I wasn't upset with him,

Good.

well, I wish he woulda said something more direct about it, but whatever. But I was pissed at her for being so disrespectful of our relationship. She's a stranger to me and is trying to be provocative with my boyfriend right under my nose. She's not taking his and my relationship seriously and doesn't care how that might make me feel...and if she's a friend you don't do that.

that's exactly what she was doing, unless she had no idea you two were together.

and then the trashed haggard roomie starts striping in the hot tub and offering titty suckles to anyone wanting one......EVERYONE including the single guys leaped out fast....and most of the couples were in complete disgust..

Sounds classy. You should definitely hang out with her more.

 

[Falconer]

It wouldn't bother me in my group, minus the nipple twist. Thats a little too far for someone new. But then we tend to be heavily flirting and some light molesting.

Had a female friend, with bf there, twist my nipple and I warned her and the bf. She did it a second time and I did it to her.

I know some guys who would start a fight with you if you made good on that threat.

Geez people are fucking retarded.

You, to moron's gf: "if you twist my nipples again, I'm going to twist yours."

Moron bf, to you: "if you touch my gf's nipples we're going to have problems"



You: "control your woman, then"








Technically, that's sexist. It's saying she can do whatever she wants (eg. touch your nipples) but you cannot do whatever you want (eg. return the favor) because she has a vagina and is entitled to act in that way

In the above example, the moron is too dumb to realize that his gf is obviously flirting with you. He's probably the same guy who tries to kick a guy's ass when the guy hits on his gf without even knowing she has a bf

 

[Diesel66]

Wow just saw that last part. Yeah, random girl stripping would be a little odd. Unless the other people were acting like that, classy....

 

[Diesel66]

I know some guys who would start a fight with you if you made good on that threat.

Geez people are fucking retarded.

You, to moron's gf: "if you twist my nipples again, I'm going to twist yours."

Moron bf, to you: "if you touch my gf's nipples we're going to have problems"



You: "control your woman, then"

I said it to him too. I give her extra room because of that type of bf, but she doesn't have free reign.

 

[Falconer]

You should probably just kick both of their asses if she did it again

 

[Aquakittie]

Of course he didn't care. He was the one getting the attention.

I'm sure if the situation was reversed he would've cared.

right...and I suggested a similar reversed scenario and he concurred that the situation would have rubbed him wrong and he saw my point.

that's exactly what she was doing, unless she had no idea you two were together.

nah she knew full well how I fit into the group...I think we we were (re)introduced she made some comment about us being a couple.

Sounds classy. You should definitely hang out with her more.

part of my other point is that I will not drive 1-2hrs out of my way to visit his house (35miles away) on a "school night" if this is the trash I have to deal with and make nice to when I get there. Won't do it. Fortunately that was the last time I've seen either girl-the roomie is not allowed back. If I ever see Narissa again, that'd be 3 times too many.

At 32 I feel way too old for some trampy AW bullshit like that....we're planning on getting married and babies and such and this kind of juvenile shit just cheapens the dynamic for me. If Narissa is around in the future, and pulls something like that again, I won't hesitate to call her out on it this time.

Incidentally, the roomie was the talk of the group for days after that about what a horrible train wreck she was....thankfully that's not the kind of company we like to keep as a consensus.

 

[ForgottenSpiral]

Different social groups have different etiquette. Maybe she's just like that naturally and you don't like her. I don't see why she shouldn't be herself though if that's who she is. Either you accept her for who she is or you don't. Doesn't mean there is anything wrong with her behavior. You talk like you expect her to just observe and keep her mouth shut and hands to herself until she learns how you expect her to act. I hardly see that as fair. If you don't like her, that's fine, but don't act like there's something wrong with her just because she doesn't behave how you want her to.

 

[Fuck Boy]

Etiquette of a Single should be to be down for a 3 some if invited by a couple. Otherwise they can do whatever they want, that's the perk of being single.

 

[Swarol]

Etiquette says observe and blend, in that order. In neither story did the girl observe enough to blend appropriately. I view both as disrespectful and lacking class and that'd be enough to make me lose interest in having them as part of the group.

I'm also super jumpy about being touched by someone unexpectedly and I probably would've flipped out about it and made the whole thing awkward. I'm also really protective of my food so it's unlikely someone could get a bite out of my burger (even my wife).

I'm probably more private than the average person but even disregarding that, neither girl fit into the group appropriately. How the group, and the individuals in the situations, responded to the girls depends on the group but each case warranted some kind of "wtf are you thinking?" response. Severity of response tailored to fit the group, obviously.

 

[ForgottenSpiral]

Social etiquette in YOUR group may be to observe and blend, but that is absolutely not the etiquette in my social group. It does not seem fair to me to impose your values on someone who does not share the same way of thinking.

 

[ForgottenSpiral]

And did anyone bother to take the poor girl aside and explain the situation to her? Sometimes all it takes is a someone to step aside and say "Hey, just so you know, some people in the group might be offended or get the wrong idea..." or whatever. Or did everyone just automatically think "fuck this bitch"?

 

[JohnJohnJohnson]

This is why people need to establish boundaries with other people as explicitly as you absolutely can from the start. This approach of "you will know my boundary when you cross it and I freak the fuck out" is fail.

Johnny's reciprocation was no better of course

 

[Diesel66]

Social etiquette in YOUR group may be to observe and blend, but that is absolutely not the etiquette in my social group. It does not seem fair to me to impose your values on someone who does not share the same way of thinking.

No, that tends to be a general social rule.

 

[Falconer]

"observe and blend" at an equal energy or less.

If a group is wild, raise your energy level to theirs, but anything lower will still be ok.

If a group is conservative, don't "blend" by being the crazy guy unless you expect to get looks.

Of course, alphas do whatever the fuck they want and don't give a fuck. Rawr! take offence? Bitch, you are just overwhelmed by my extreme masculinity. I can see you getting wet from here

Obviously there are exceptions which you will learn through calibration.

 

[ForgottenSpiral]

This is why people need to establish boundaries with other people as explicitly as you absolutely can from the start. This approach of "you will know my boundary when you cross it and I freak the fuck out" is fail.

Johnny's reciprocation was no better of course

 

[JohnQPoster]

Johnny should have moved away from Sarah after the nip twist. If I were Johnny I would have slapped her hand away and I would have gotten up and walked where ever I could go that would keep my back to

If she followed or perused him further he should have told her 'Get the fuck away from me, you stupid bitch.'

If he had blatantly and unequivocally rejected her advances she would have become embarrassed, gotten the message and unless she is a crazy stalker, she would have left him alone.

When I first got with the SO we were partying at my fathers house (nobody was home [I think my mother and father had abandoned the place at that point]) with some other people. It was the SO, another girl, three dudes, and I. The SO was related to the girl and one of the dudes, but didn't really even know them, and she knew the other dude. This girl was involved sexually with the dude that wasn't related to anybody and nobody knew. She was staying in her grandfathers house with her three kids, she was supposed to be taking care of him but she never cleaned the place and was never there. Grandpa was left alone at least once and he fell and broke his hip it actually killed him. She was also a skank, before I got with the SO I was a 22 year old virgin and I was unwilling to have sex with her. Not that she had ever showed any intreast, she told me once that she thought I was one of 'those guys, that live out here.' The SO said that she didn't know what she meant by this comment and the girl was unable to explain. Anyway dirty in every sense of the word, she had a lot of problems but when it comes down to it she was a semi-decent person.

We were in my bedroom, as I say partying. As you walked through the door there was a sofa across the room, the bed was butted up against it on the long side of the bed. SO was on the sofa talking to one of these dudes, I was sitting on the long side of the bed with this girl. It was getting a little crazy in there and everybody was sorta talking at once, nobody was really paying any attention to what anyone else was doing.

I felt the mood shift with this girl, maybe she had said something, maybe it was her body language. I don't know but she was going to place her hand upon my (fully clothed) chest. I felt it coming, she was going to make some sort of move. I did a half a reverse somersault (with my ass and legs away from her) to escape, as I murmured 'oh, no.' I had the opposite side of the bed about a foot from the wall, just enough so I could get to the window if I wanted but to do so I also would have to scoot bast the television, which was next to the door.

I got off of the bed on the side with the one foot gap between it and the wall, I stood there. She got the point and left me alone.

Sounds like Johnny was interested to me, then he played dumb for the girlfriend. She knows that he is not that stupid, she was mad because he enjoyed flirting with Sarah. He knew why she was mad and she knew that he knew why she was mad, she didn't have to tell him because he was trying to play stupid ass with her. He may have been trying to piss her off.

That, or he was drunk, or he has no experience dating, or any combination of the above.

Maybe if you are just starting to date someone you should try not to hang out with dudes who hang out with skanks and if you have to you prob. shouldn't drink with them, like they can drink but maybe you shouldn't if you care about the person you are dating.

As far as Sarah goes she is just a skank, trying to whore it up. Give her a break, if her flirting with other dudes upsets Luke he ought to deal with it somehow. (Telling her to knock it off or dumping her) She was trying to get laid by someone other than Luke and that is his problem.

If she is flirting with a dude and he doesn't want to play along, if he has a mouth and legs (or a wheelchair) I am sure that he can put a stop to it, quickly and unequivocally.