GUN So I have to show proper cause for wanting a concealed carry permit...

BimmerJustin

Why would you deny yourself something you want?
Dec 31, 2000
57,426
Fantasyland
I know this is crazy to a lot of the gun owners in here, but its the burden I bear for living in this liberal state.

Anyway, I know theres no judges here and every judge is different, and its a crapshoot whether or not I'll get it, just try to put yourself in a liberal judges shoes to critique my argument;

I live in the lower part of NY state. I go upstate on a regular basis to hunt, target shoot, fish, ride quads, etc.

My justification for "needing" an unrestricted CCW is that in areas of NY where the carrying of weapons is common, there is an elevated threat of violence. In addition, since many of the areas I intend to carry are rural and secluded in nature, I cannot necessarily count on law enforcement to respond in a timely manner.

I plan to follow that with the typical discussion of how serious a responsibility this is, I've been a sportsmen and hunter my entire life, heres the training I've had, etc.

Bottom line, is it not smart to argue that being in the presence of other gun owners who routinely carry (legally and illegally), creates an elevated threat? Or is this a reasonable argument (its really all I've got)
 

kellyclan

She only loves you when she's drunk.
May 16, 2001
18,817
If the judge is not inclined to grant permits, arguing that proximity to other guns necessitates having a gun yourself will likely result in the next logical step of that argument; by adding another gun, you've made it more dangerous for everyone.

The argument that you travel in secluded areas with extended police response times would help, though you would want to couple that with some specific concern or better yet, previous experience. ("I often see bike gangs there" or "I had to call the police for an emergent situation and it still took them 30min to get there")

I've only heard of people in south NY getting permits for moving cash or valuables as part of their business, but be sure to update us if it works out for you.
 

Goontz

New Member
Feb 8, 2011
9,832
Texas
No real help here regarding what argument to use, but man, that process is just crazy to me. Good luck :hs:
 
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BimmerJustin

BimmerJustin

Why would you deny yourself something you want?
Dec 31, 2000
57,426
Fantasyland
If the judge is not inclined to grant permits, arguing that proximity to other guns necessitates having a gun yourself will likely result in the next logical step of that argument; by adding another gun, you've made it more dangerous for everyone.

The argument that you travel in secluded areas with extended police response times would help, though you would want to couple that with some specific concern or better yet, previous experience. ("I often see bike gangs there" or "I had to call the police for an emergent situation and it still took them 30min to get there")

I've only heard of people in south NY getting permits for moving cash or valuables as part of their business, but be sure to update us if it works out for you.

I dont move cash or valuables, and the reality is I'll likely be stuck with a restricted CCW which allows me to carry to and from hunting activities and the range.

That said, I want to try. I agree with you that I'm walking a thin line by arguing that proximity to guns causes elevated danger. I may try to stress the fact that I have encountered many gun owners carrying illegally, or carrying while impaired, proximity to people of questionable judgement may lead to an elevated threat. But overall, I intend to downplay this argument to a few sentances at most, and if asked to defend my stance, argue that I am taking the proper steps needed to carry legally and am therefore not adding to the threat. My only concern here is being asked why if I encountered someone carrying illegally I did not contact police (not sure if they'll take it that far).

I intend play up the secluded area argument though I do not have experience where LEO was called and took a long time to respond. I may do some basic research on geographical locations of LEO barracks vs. the areas where I spend the majority of my time.

Ultimately, I plan to make the strongest case showing that I am a responsible and well trained gun owner. I am taking my basic NRA pistol course this week, and will try to schedule a CCW course before I apply.
 
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BimmerJustin

BimmerJustin

Why would you deny yourself something you want?
Dec 31, 2000
57,426
Fantasyland
I was able to use my membership to a Search and rescue team as justification.

interesting, I dont suppose its practical to join a team before I apply :x:

though it actually does sound interesting, maybe if I did take part in something like this in the future, I could get rid of the restrictions which will inevidibly be on there.

BTW, what county did you apply?
 
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Goontz

New Member
Feb 8, 2011
9,832
Texas
Irresponsibility (and impairment) of others, secluded areas with unknown dangers (be it people or wildlife, maybe?), and pointing out the responsibility of the steps you're trying to take to do the right thing should all help you, I'd think.

Is there any kind of defensive, tactical, etc type handgun course offered by a range that you could take to show you have more training than others who may be applying? (this could play to not only your skill but also responsibility)
 
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BimmerJustin

BimmerJustin

Why would you deny yourself something you want?
Dec 31, 2000
57,426
Fantasyland
Irresponsibility (and impairment) of others, secluded areas with unknown dangers (be it people or wildlife, maybe?), and pointing out the responsibility of the steps you're trying to take to do the right thing should all help you, I'd think.

Is there any kind of defensive, tactical, etc type handgun course offered by a range that you could take to show you have more training than others who may be applying? (this could play to not only your skill but also responsibility)

Local places do offer CCW and self-defense courses. The NRA basic pistol course is all that is required, but if I can get a couple more under my belt, it will only help. Definitely planning on this,

Right now im in the gathering reference letters phase of my application. I need 4 notarized reference forms from non-relatives (blood or marriage). Pain in the ass, but I'll have them done by next week.
 
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BimmerJustin

BimmerJustin

Why would you deny yourself something you want?
Dec 31, 2000
57,426
Fantasyland
Thinking about taking the Utah concealed carry course and getting the Utah permit, could instill some confidence in the licensing judge.
 

Goontz

New Member
Feb 8, 2011
9,832
Texas
Possibly, but at the same time, it doesn't take much to get a UT license, and NY doesn't honor it, so I don't know how much consideration a judge would give that. 'Course...couldn't hurt.
 

alex

RIP OT Yard Sale
OT Supporter
Oct 11, 2005
29,361
Orange County, NY
As another fellow "lower NY state" resident, I can safely tell you that you will not get any type of carry permit. Your permit will be for "target, hunting, fishing, camping, hiking" only. No way around it. You could claim that you were hiking in the wilderness, but if a officer or ranger decides to say hi and he sees a concealed weapon, license or no license you can guarantee you're getting arrested, gun confiscated and have to defend yourself in court. That's just how it works in NY.

They only exception is if you're ex-law enforcement and get a good guy letter from your lieutenant or if you work as an armed guard... at which case it still won't be full carry for personal protection, they'll just add "security work-related".
 
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BimmerJustin

BimmerJustin

Why would you deny yourself something you want?
Dec 31, 2000
57,426
Fantasyland
As another fellow "lower NY state" resident, I can safely tell you that you will not get any type of carry permit. Your permit will be for "target, hunting, fishing, camping, hiking" only. No way around it. You could claim that you were hiking in the wilderness, but if a officer or ranger decides to say hi and he sees a concealed weapon, license or no license you can guarantee you're getting arrested, gun confiscated and have to defend yourself in court. That's just how it works in NY.

They only exception is if you're ex-law enforcement and get a good guy letter from your lieutenant or if you work as an armed guard... at which case it still won't be full carry for personal protection, they'll just add "security work-related".

You have a hunting/sporting resticted license?

Just to confirm, it is a CCW permit, only with restrictions placed onto it?

I've read stories of people who get the restricted CCW and petition the judge after a year ago and successfully have it removed.
 

alex

RIP OT Yard Sale
OT Supporter
Oct 11, 2005
29,361
Orange County, NY
You have a hunting/sporting resticted license?

Just to confirm, it is a CCW permit, only with restrictions placed onto it?

I've read stories of people who get the restricted CCW and petition the judge after a year ago and successfully have it removed.

Yes, it is a CCW permit with restrictions printed in bold under my photograph.
 

XO

I'll bee your honey
OT Supporter
Oct 5, 2001
50,294
Not*Cal
Well my step dad got one in SoCal because he was a 'manager' and 'had to make nightly cash deposits for the company'

I don't know how well you can work that angle though or how much they really verify
 

alex

RIP OT Yard Sale
OT Supporter
Oct 11, 2005
29,361
Orange County, NY
Well my step dad got one in SoCal because he was a 'manager' and 'had to make nightly cash deposits for the company'

I don't know how well you can work that angle though or how much they really verify

they really, really verify. trust me. and if you work that angle, you'll probably get "employment" purposes... but the issue with that is, if a cop decides to stop you and finds out you have a gun, you're guilty until proven innocent, you'll have to prove that you were at that moment working high-risk for the company. and if not, you'll face a mandatory minimum gun sentence. not worth it and for the everyman there's no such thing as 'full carry' in NY/CA.
 

CheeseFrog

When you were partying, I studied the blade
Oct 5, 2003
12,244
Phoenix, AZ
BimmerJustin, in your line of work you're routinely in charge of expensive computer/camera/video/other random electronic equipment valued at over $100k, right? Right? It works in CA at least.
 

alex

RIP OT Yard Sale
OT Supporter
Oct 11, 2005
29,361
Orange County, NY
BimmerJustin, in your line of work you're routinely in charge of expensive computer/camera/video/other random electronic equipment valued at over $100k, right? Right? It works in CA at least.

Again, at least in NY, this isn't something to fuck with. Let's say the judge buys it. It won't be a no restrictions license, it'll be an employment based license. And if you get busted with a gun and you cannot make it clear to a judge that you were in the process of transporting expensive equipment per your license restriction, then you will GO TO JAIL.

They don't fuck about with gun charges over here.
 

alex

RIP OT Yard Sale
OT Supporter
Oct 11, 2005
29,361
Orange County, NY
lol @ having to justify


Guilty until proven innocent. Even if you have a CCW permit, the cops will treat you like a dangerous armed thug in NY. I'm not sure if it's just that the cops are power hungry and don't like the idea that they aren't the only ones who are armed or that there are simply so few CCW's that they don't see them that often and assume that every weapon is illegal.

Either way, you've got to prove to the cop that you're following the law EXACTLY or you'll get arrested. Don't fool around by being cheeky. One of the guys at the gun store said that one of his regulars was arrested for having his gun on him in the car. Just to have.

Conversation went like this:

Cop: License, registration and proof of insurance please.
Guy: Sure.
Cop: [sees gun in jacket holster] [draws gun] HANDS WHERE I CAN SEE THEM!
Guy: Officer, this firearm is licensed and I have a concealed weapons permit!
Cop: Give me your CCW license.... This is a restricted license sir.
Guy: Yeah, I'm actually on my way to go target shooting!
trollface.png
[pulls out some paper targets from under his seat he saved there for just this occasion]
Cop: Where? All ranges are closed at this hour.
Guy: Errrr.... seriously?
Cop: Step out of the car, you're under arrest for felony possession of a firearm.


Charges were later dropped by prosecution before trial and he was lucky, he got to keep his CCW.... Most people lose their CCW on the spot. So yeah, don't get cheeky or cute. Don't start carrying around your gun everywhere with a restricted permit because some dingus at the range told you to tell the cop "OH I'M ACTUALLY LEGALLY HIKING RIGHT NOW BECAUSE TECHNICALLY blah blah blah!
trollface.png
". You won't be able to share a chuckle with the officer and go away scot free. Follow the restrictions to the letter and when it doubt, leave the gun at home.

Welcome to NY. :wtc:
 

XO

I'll bee your honey
OT Supporter
Oct 5, 2001
50,294
Not*Cal
out here it pretty much goes like this

LEO: License and registration?
Drive: I have a concealed
*gets cut off*
LEO: License and registration!
 

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