GAME The OFFICIAL Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild playthrough thread (GAME OF THE YEAR).

Highlander_77

Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!!!
Dec 7, 2000
92,458
New England
I started playing BOTW again this weekend after probably only putting 10 hours into it when it first launched (not sure, I have like 5 hearts?) . Game is definitely great, and I'm going to try to actually commit to finishing it. The game is innovative, polished, and everything you'd expect from the Zelda franchise/Nintendo. I think my biggest gripe with the game is weapon durability -- I hated it at launch and learned to re-hate it again this weekend.

PUBG is a totally different beast. I probably have ~200 hours in game, and while at the moment I'm currently burned out on it, the battle royale aspect is fun as hell. While I understand that PUBG currently has all the stats on Steam and Twitch, it's a totally unpolished game. The game is filled with ridiculous bugs, rampant cheaters, and is an absolute lag-fest the first minute or two after landing. With that said, I don't expect a perfect game from something that is in early access -- I also don't expect an early access game to win GOTY.

FWIW, the Culling was a BR game (non-mod) that came out before PUBG -- PUBG was just the first to get WIDE adoption.


Get a little farther into the game and weapon durability becomes much less of a pain. Trust me, they balanced it out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: firemunki

silkforcalde

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2017
20,649
What the hell is "frame pacing"? And yeah, the load times were ass when it first came out. They fixed that in later patches though.

How smooth the frame rate is. It might say 30 fps but if it's dropping frames it will feel more erratic and less smooth. Bloodborne drops frames all the time. Often drops far below the target frame rate of 30 fps. If you've never seen Dark Souls 3 @1440p or higher at a steady 60 fps you'd understand the complaint immediately. I spend a lot of money on hardware to completely remove this issue and it's a bummer when a game as good as Bloodborne comes out and it's going to be inferior just because it only runs on garbage low quality hardware.
 

Highlander_77

Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!!!
Dec 7, 2000
92,458
New England
As for BOTW, the frame rate is fine. A couple of times I might have noticed it dip below 30fps, but it was never really distracting. Resolution was fine for the game's graphical style. The game's technical shortcomings (which really are more the shortcomings of the hardware it's running on) never once detracted from the enjoyment of the game. It did "open world" better than it's ever been done before. The climbing mechanic that you found so tedious (it's a lot less so if you use the climbing gear, btw) opened up the exploration to a degree beyond any prior open world game (or any prior Zelda game, for that matter). The star of BOTW was the world, not the dungeons as its been in past Zelda games.
 

silkforcalde

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2017
20,649
Get a little farther into the game and weapon durability becomes much less of a pain. Trust me, they balanced it out.

Made it pretty far, just didn't complete the last castle area for whatever reason and had some memories left to find. It's all moot though, Sphygmo sold his WiiU and didn't get BotW for the Switch and I don't think I'd want to replay the game. We cleared all the spirit beasts and had the map mostly explored. Didn't do every shrine though but we did way more than half.
 

silkforcalde

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2017
20,649
As for BOTW, the frame rate is fine. A couple of times I might have noticed it dip below 30fps, but it was never really distracting. Resolution was fine for the game's graphical style. The game's technical shortcomings (which really are more the shortcomings of the hardware it's running on) never once detracted from the enjoyment of the game. It did "open world" better than it's ever been done before. The climbing mechanic that you found so tedious (it's a lot less so if you use the climbing gear, btw) opened up the exploration to a degree beyond any prior open world game (or any prior Zelda game, for that matter). The star of BOTW was the world, not the dungeons as its been in past Zelda games.

If we're going over mobility and freedom in an open world, Batman: Arkham City + Arkham Knight, Just Cause 2, Dying Light, Saints Row 4, and others like Infamous Second Son all had just as much freedom. There's really nowhere in Dying Light you can't get to except around the rock wall and ocean that limits the edges of the map. If you've never played that game, it's pretty damn good. It's a first person melee oriented action rpg with heavy parkour elements.
 

Highlander_77

Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!!!
Dec 7, 2000
92,458
New England
How smooth the frame rate is. It might say 30 fps but if it's dropping frames it will feel more erratic and less smooth. Bloodborne drops frames all the time. Often drops far below the target frame rate of 30 fps. If you've never seen Dark Souls 3 @1440p or higher at a steady 60 fps you'd understand the complaint immediately. I spend a lot of money on hardware to completely remove this issue and it's a bummer when a game as good as Bloodborne comes out and it's going to be inferior just because it only runs on garbage low quality hardware.


I played all of the Dark Souls games on PC, so yeah, I'm aware of the difference in frame rate. Yes, I definitely notice it right away if I go from playing DS3 to playing Bloodborne. But I get used to the lower frame rate in a few minutes. And in spite of that technical issue, I think Bloodborne is my favorite game of the Soulsborne series. A game is not defined by its technical limitations. It's what it does within those limitations that count.
 

silkforcalde

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2017
20,649
I played all of the Dark Souls games on PC, so yeah, I'm aware of the difference in frame rate. Yes, I definitely notice it right away if I go from playing DS3 to playing Bloodborne. But I get used to the lower frame rate in a few minutes. And in spite of that technical issue, I think Bloodborne is my favorite game of the Soulsborne series. A game is not defined by its technical limitations. It's what it does within those limitations that count.

Dark Souls 2: Scholar of the First Sin is my favorite. The invasions and pvp were so good. I didn't like the multiplayer in Bloodborne at all so it's my least favorite of the bunch. Dark Souls 3 had some good PVP but it's not nearly as well balanced as Dark Souls 2. Dark Souls 2 had way more build diversity and NG+ actually makes the game harder and better. I didn't like how they removed upgrading armor from Bloodborne, it honestly feels like armor is more cosmetic than anything in Bloodborne outside of a couple moments like those insanity giving enemies in the late game. I still played Bloodborne through like three times, but I played Dark Souls 2 through more like 20 times.
 

silkforcalde

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2017
20,649
Also the Red Iron Twinblade in Dark Souls 2 is the best weapon from all the Soulsborne games.
 

Highlander_77

Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!!!
Dec 7, 2000
92,458
New England
If we're going over mobility and freedom in an open world, Batman: Arkham City + Arkham Knight, Just Cause 2, Dying Light, Saints Row 4, and others like Infamous Second Son all had just as much freedom. There's really nowhere in Dying Light you can't get to except around the rock wall and ocean that limits the edges of the map. If you've never played that game, it's pretty damn good. It's a first person melee oriented action rpg with heavy parkour elements.


I've played the Batman games. Yeah, those gave you a lot of freedom to move around the map. You also had to gradually open up the other areas through the story, and those maps were a mere fraction of the size of BOTW's map. But it's not just about the mobility. It's about the way it encourages you to just explore the world. After that brief opening area on the plateau, it's all wide open for you to explore and interact with. The interactivity is another major aspect. The game's physics, the different ways you can approach most of the obstacles and puzzles...it's just the most fully-realized world I think I've ever seen in a videogame.
 

Highlander_77

Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!!!
Dec 7, 2000
92,458
New England
Dark Souls 2: Scholar of the First Sin is my favorite. The invasions and pvp were so good. I didn't like the multiplayer in Bloodborne at all so it's my least favorite of the bunch. Dark Souls 3 had some good PVP but it's not nearly as well balanced as Dark Souls 2. Dark Souls 2 had way more build diversity and NG+ actually makes the game harder and better. I didn't like how they removed upgrading armor from Bloodborne, it honestly feels like armor is more cosmetic than anything in Bloodborne outside of a couple moments like those insanity giving enemies in the late game. I still played Bloodborne through like three times, but I played Dark Souls 2 through more like 20 times.


It figures that the PVP aspect would be your main criteria for ranking those games. :rofl:

And no, armor wasn't as impactful in Bloodborne. Not in terms of pure defense anyway. But it wasn't supposed to be. It isn't Dark Souls, as much as the two games share in common. Its world design was better than everything except MAYBE the original Dark Souls, except that Bloodborne didn't have any truly awful areas like a few of the ones in Dark Souls. What I really love about Bloodborne is the atmosphere, the lore, the feel of the combat, the design of the weapons, and just the overall "feel" of the game. It makes me think of what a proper modern 3D Castlevania could be like if Konami wasn't a shit company now.

I actually enjoyed Dark Souls 2 a lot, even though it didn't have the sort of "clever" world design that DS1 had. Probably because it felt the most like a throwback to King's Field 2, which was probably my favorite of From Soft's older RPGs. Ironically the same sort of situation existed with that series, as the original King's Field (well, not counting the one that only came out in Japan and nobody played) had more of the style of level design seen in the original Dark Souls, with the complex interconnected areas. That game was honestly well ahead of its time, imo. I don't think any game had done 3D environments like that before. Certainly not on console.
 

Highlander_77

Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!!!
Dec 7, 2000
92,458
New England
I'm happy to hear that. At my current level, it's absolutely annoying


Yeah, early on when very few weapons seem to survive fighting more than a couple bokoblins, I was a little worried about that was going to work out. :rofl:

Just pour all of your early korok seeds into expanding your weapons stash. And uh, try to get the Master Sword as soon as you can. :o
 

GRattu

OT Supporter
Sep 21, 2007
9,502
Yeah, early on when very few weapons seem to survive fighting more than a couple bokoblins, I was a little worried about that was going to work out. :rofl:

Just pour all of your early korok seeds into expanding your weapons stash. And uh, try to get the Master Sword as soon as you can. :o
So it's balanced when you get the one unbreakable weapon in the game
 

Highlander_77

Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!!!
Dec 7, 2000
92,458
New England
So it's balanced when you get the one unbreakable weapon in the game


Huh? No, the Master Sword is still breakable. :rofl: It does regenerate, but you can't just rely on it all the time. It helps though. No, a little further into the game the weapons you typically find have better durability, plus pretty much every enemy that doesn't just die in one hit drops a weapon of some kind. Once you're able to kill a few enemies with one weapon, you'll end up with more weapons than you can use and start having to pick and choose which ones you want to hold on to and which ones you want to throw away.
 

silkforcalde

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2017
20,649
I had the Master Sword and a heavily upgraded weapons stash and the durability issue still existed. Weapons still break after fighting a few enemies unless they are extremely weak enemies, some enemies will go through several weapons alone, and dealing with the clunky UI and inventory is kind of annoying. Also I definitely didn't like that the Master Sword was breakable. I feel like at that point I would've preferred an unbreakable Master Sword that I used all the time.
 

Highlander_77

Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!!!
Dec 7, 2000
92,458
New England
I had the Master Sword and a heavily upgraded weapons stash and the durability issue still existed. Weapons still break after fighting a few enemies unless they are extremely weak enemies, some enemies will go through several weapons alone, and dealing with the clunky UI and inventory is kind of annoying. Also I definitely didn't like that the Master Sword was breakable. I feel like at that point I would've preferred an unbreakable Master Sword that I used all the time.

Very few enemies require multiple weapons to take down, especially further in the game. And the ones that do usually DROP multiple weapons, or very strong ones. And if you were able to kill 3 or 4 enemies with one weapon, that means you picked up 3 or 4 more weapons to replace the one that broke. Plus with all the weapons you find from shrines and chests...I mean, there's plenty. You're never coming close to running out of weapons after the early parts of the game.

I guess for a gamer who primarily plays on PC, any kind of UI on a console game is going to feel "clunky". I'm not sure how they could have handled the quick switching of weapons/shields/bows/arrows/runes any better though. The only thing that would sometimes trip me up even later in the game was having to manually put away my bow before bringing up the quick-change menu for melee weapons. That was a minor annoyance though, and never actually caused a real issue since the game pauses while you're doing it.
 

silkforcalde

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2017
20,649
I have had a problem with Nintendo controls in almost all their games since the N64. Every time I played BotW I would have to spend around 10 minutes just familiarizing myself with the controls again because they are counter-intuitive as Hell and Nintendo's methods for control input like the WiiU gamepad leave a LOT to be desired. I've heard the Switch Pro controller is good but it's really expensive. I don't know if BotW is better on the Switch or the same, but the menus are really cumbersome on the WiiU. Crafting food, for example, is a nightmare of scrolling through pages of junk for each simple piece of food cooked.

I didn't like dealing with all the junk weapons, anyway. I don't think having a weapon break on a mob and then having that mob drop a weapon to use is a fun mechanic, I'd rather stick with a weapon that I liked and eventually upgrade when I found something better. Maybe if the weapons had something like 50x as much durability (no hyperbole) I wouldn't have minded as much. In a game that I had less complaints about, perhaps the durability issue is something I wouldn't have mentioned. But I had a LOT of complaints about BotW and they just added up and added up the further I got into the game.

Jim Sterling's review aligns pretty well with my opinion of the game:

http://www.thejimquisition.com/the-legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild-review/

I particularly agree with his comments about weapon durability:

"The other major point of contention holding back combat is – and you know I have to say it – weapon durability.

It’s hardly surprising the people of Hyrule can’t definitively put Ganon away since we’ve now learned their swords are made out of glass and wishes. Weapons break in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. They break a LOT, to the point where it starts looking absolutely pathetic, to the point where you wonder why every blacksmith in the world hasn’t been fired or thrown in jail for gross incompetence.

Weapon durability systems are never fun, and Zelda goes out of its way to make it as excruciating as it possibly can. While others have claimed that late game weapons are durable enough for it to not be a problem, I maintain that some of the more powerful weapons in the game are still miserably brittle, able to withstand maybe a handful of enemies before players get a nagging pop-up notifying them their fun with the weapon they might have been loving is about to conclude.

Once the weapon embarrassingly shatters, players will need to pause their combat – which is always something you want players to do as a designer – and select a new weapon to irreparably damage. Either that, or scrabble for something on the ground, even if it’s one of the hundreds of crap clubs that will be thrust upon Link right up until the end of the game.

Also, don’t get too excited when you find the handful of weapons that can be “repaired.” They can’t be. They break like everything else, and will need exorbitant resources spent with specific NPCs to reforge – exorbitant to the point of literally not being worth it. The only truly lasting weapon is the Master Sword, which itself comes with caveats.

Weapon durability has become a controversial talking point for this game. Some have defended it, claiming it’s not a big problem and that it “encourages variety.” I’m firmly among those who believe that it doesn’t encourage variety so much as it discourages using most of the cool weapons you find for fear of losing them, and turns their acquisition into something unexciting, almost disappointing.

Opening a chest to find another disposable weapon that I can’t get attached to is a letdown, not a reward. Never have I been so happy to just find 100 rupees at the end of a trial. At least I can invest those in something I might get to keep and enjoy, like a fancy tiara or a house."
 

Jesus

OT Supporter
Sep 13, 2005
32,957
Jupiter, FL
Very few enemies require multiple weapons to take down, especially further in the game. And the ones that do usually DROP multiple weapons, or very strong ones. And if you were able to kill 3 or 4 enemies with one weapon, that means you picked up 3 or 4 more weapons to replace the one that broke. Plus with all the weapons you find from shrines and chests...I mean, there's plenty. You're never coming close to running out of weapons after the early parts of the game.

I guess for a gamer who primarily plays on PC, any kind of UI on a console game is going to feel "clunky". I'm not sure how they could have handled the quick switching of weapons/shields/bows/arrows/runes any better though. The only thing that would sometimes trip me up even later in the game was having to manually put away my bow before bringing up the quick-change menu for melee weapons. That was a minor annoyance though, and never actually caused a real issue since the game pauses while you're doing it.
Breathe.
 

Highlander_77

Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!!!
Dec 7, 2000
92,458
New England
I have had a problem with Nintendo controls in almost all their games since the N64. Every time I played BotW I would have to spend around 10 minutes just familiarizing myself with the controls again because they are counter-intuitive as Hell and Nintendo's methods for control input like the WiiU gamepad leave a LOT to be desired. I've heard the Switch Pro controller is good but it's really expensive. I don't know if BotW is better on the Switch or the same, but the menus are really cumbersome on the WiiU. Crafting food, for example, is a nightmare of scrolling through pages of junk for each simple piece of food cooked.

I didn't like dealing with all the junk weapons, anyway. I don't think having a weapon break on a mob and then having that mob drop a weapon to use is a fun mechanic, I'd rather stick with a weapon that I liked and eventually upgrade when I found something better. Maybe if the weapons had something like 50x as much durability (no hyperbole) I wouldn't have minded as much. In a game that I had less complaints about, perhaps the durability issue is something I wouldn't have mentioned. But I had a LOT of complaints about BotW and they just added up and added up the further I got into the game.

Jim Sterling's review aligns pretty well with my opinion of the game:

http://www.thejimquisition.com/the-legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild-review/

I particularly agree with his comments about weapon durability:

"The other major point of contention holding back combat is – and you know I have to say it – weapon durability.

It’s hardly surprising the people of Hyrule can’t definitively put Ganon away since we’ve now learned their swords are made out of glass and wishes. Weapons break in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. They break a LOT, to the point where it starts looking absolutely pathetic, to the point where you wonder why every blacksmith in the world hasn’t been fired or thrown in jail for gross incompetence.

Weapon durability systems are never fun, and Zelda goes out of its way to make it as excruciating as it possibly can. While others have claimed that late game weapons are durable enough for it to not be a problem, I maintain that some of the more powerful weapons in the game are still miserably brittle, able to withstand maybe a handful of enemies before players get a nagging pop-up notifying them their fun with the weapon they might have been loving is about to conclude.

Once the weapon embarrassingly shatters, players will need to pause their combat – which is always something you want players to do as a designer – and select a new weapon to irreparably damage. Either that, or scrabble for something on the ground, even if it’s one of the hundreds of crap clubs that will be thrust upon Link right up until the end of the game.

Also, don’t get too excited when you find the handful of weapons that can be “repaired.” They can’t be. They break like everything else, and will need exorbitant resources spent with specific NPCs to reforge – exorbitant to the point of literally not being worth it. The only truly lasting weapon is the Master Sword, which itself comes with caveats.

Weapon durability has become a controversial talking point for this game. Some have defended it, claiming it’s not a big problem and that it “encourages variety.” I’m firmly among those who believe that it doesn’t encourage variety so much as it discourages using most of the cool weapons you find for fear of losing them, and turns their acquisition into something unexciting, almost disappointing.

Opening a chest to find another disposable weapon that I can’t get attached to is a letdown, not a reward. Never have I been so happy to just find 100 rupees at the end of a trial. At least I can invest those in something I might get to keep and enjoy, like a fancy tiara or a house."


I mean, that's nice. I disagree with him too, though.


Edit: To be clear, I don't disagree that some of the things he lists as annoyances were indeed annoying. But I definitely disagree about the extent to which they impacted enjoyment of the game as a whole.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

About Us

  • Please do not post anything that violates any Local, State, Federal or International Laws. Your privacy is protected. You have the right to be forgotten. Site funded by advertising, link monetization and member support.
OT v15.8.1 Copyright © 2000-2022 Offtopic.com
Served by fu.offtopic.com

Online statistics

Members online
496
Guests online
61
Total visitors
557

Forum statistics

Threads
369,665
Messages
16,905,123
Members
86,876
Latest member
peterparl19